
##54361 Announcer : It 's SUNDAY MORNING on CBS and here again is Charles Osgood . @!CHARLES-OSGOOD-ho : For our Couples series this morning , we 're going to take a closer , more personal look at a couple most moviegoers have only seen at the theater . While they share the screen relatively briefly in their new motion picture , Rita Braver tells us they 've been sharing their lives for a whole lot longer . @(Photo-of-Amy-Madig) @!Ms-AMY-MADIGAN : We 've been married 17 years . @!RITA-BRAVER-report : That 's a long time by anybody 's standards . @!Ms-MADIGAN : I guess it is , is n't it , you know ? @!Mr-ED-HARRIS : Plus , we 've worked at it , you know ? @!Ms-MADIGAN : Yeah , we ... @!BRAVER : You have ? @!Mr-HARRIS : Oh , yeah . @!Ms-MADIGAN : Oh , yeah . @!BRAVER : In what way ? @!Mr-HARRIS : Well , she kind of said , ' You got to talk about a few things , Ed , you know ? ' @!BRAVER : Yeah . @!Mr-HARRIS : You know -- @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @!BRAVER : And you 've gotten better ? @!Mr-HARRIS : Yeah , a little bit . @!Ms-MADIGAN : We 're kind of doing both . @(Footage-of-couple) @!BRAVER : ( Voiceover ) Ed Harris and Amy Madigan are living proof of the old adage that opposites attract . She 's outgoing , with a giggle that wo n't quit . @!Ms-MADIGAN : Yeah , right -- something like that . @(Footage-of-couple) @!BRAVER : ( Voiceover ) He 's more introspective , and coaxing a laugh out of him can take some work . But they share an unwavering commitment to each other . @!Mr-HARRIS : She 's really intelligent . You know , I think she 's a beautiful woman , person . And , well , you know , she 's my partner , you know ? qwq @ ( Excerpt-from- " Poll @!BRAVER : ( Voiceover ) That partnership is on display in " Pollock , " Harris ' new film about artist Jackson Pollock . qwq @ ( Excerpt-from- " Poll @!BRAVER : ( Voiceover ) Harris produced , starred and made his directing debut in the new film @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Guggenheim , Pollock 's cranky art patron . qwq @ ( Excerpt-from- " Poll @!BRAVER : ( Voiceover ) But she did n't get the bigger part of Pollock 's wife , artist Lee Krasner . qwq @ ( Excerpt-from- " Poll @!BRAVER : Were you disappointed that you did n't get that role ? @!Ms-MADIGAN : No . If I was casting the film , I would not cast Amy for that part . I do n't think I 'm the right person for it . I -- I really do mean it was not a disappointment for me because it was really more about Ed get -- getting the film the way that he wanted it to be . qwq @ ( Footage-from- " Poll @!BRAVER : ( Voiceover ) In fact , making this film became an obsession for Harris . It started back in 1986 , when his father sent him a book about Pollock and pointed out the striking physical resemblance between the artist and the actor . Harris became fascinated by the hard-drinking , volatile and sometimes violent king of American abstract expressionism. qwq @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to produce , direct and act in this movie ? @!Mr-HARRIS : You know , I worked on it most of the ' 90s , spent a lot of time with the script . @(Footage-of-Harris-) @!Mr-HARRIS : ( Voiceover ) I had a lot of feeling about it . I did n't know if I would have been hard-pressed to tell you what my vision was in particular , but I knew that I ha -- I had a -- very specific personal feelings about this and I did n't want to just hand it over to someone else and let them -- and follow their guidance , you know ? @(Photo-of-Pollock) @!BRAVER : ( Voiceover ) By then , Harris had realized that he and Pollock shared more than physical qualities . @!Mr-HARRIS : A deep kind of insecurity on some level , a desire to -- to do one 's best , an ultimate confidence in one 's ability , a need for approval . @!BRAVER : Do you feel like you 've ever struggled with the same kinds of inner demons that he struggled with ? @!Mr-HARRIS : @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ know . I mean , I think probably most people walking on the planet have at one point or another -- particularly creative people . You know , I 've had periods of time , but never -- never so dark , never so black that I di -- could n't see my way out of it , you know ? @!Mr-JACKSON-POLLOCK : ( From vintage video ) I do n't work from drawings or color sketches . @(Footage-of-vintage) @!BRAVER : ( Voiceover ) Harris was determined that the film be authentic . He studied these famous scenes of Pollock ... @!Mr-POLLOCK : ( From vintage video ) This way I can walk around it , work from all four sides and be in the painting . qwq @ ( Footage-of- " Polloc @!BRAVER : ( Voiceover ) ... and even took up painting himself in order to recreate the artist 's sense of passionate abandon . qwq @ ( Excerpt-from- " Poll @!Mr-HARRIS : And that was the most freeing time for me , really , in the whole process , was when I got to paint , because I @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ You know , whether it works or not is not even the point . So I pretty much just painted , and then they filmed me. qwq @ ( Excerpt-from- " Poll @!BRAVER : What was it like working and living with your husband when he was playing the role of Jackson Pollock , this kind of really intense genius , who was also apparently somewhat manic-depressive ? @!Ms-MADIGAN : Well , I did n't see Ed a lot , which probably was the saving grace for the whole family , you know ? I like working with Ed , and he had a lot of hats to wear on this one and he was certainly kind of frayed at some points . But I think if you 're intimate with somebody , it 's a good idea if you work with them or it 's a really bad idea . I do n't think there 's lots of shades of gray . And it seems to work out pretty well for Ed and I. @(Photo-of-couple) @!BRAVER : ( Voiceover ) The two have worked together frequently over the years in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ " Places in the Heart . " It was during the filming of that one that they got married . qwq @ ( Footage-of- " Places @!Mr-HARRIS : We had talked about it on Friday or something . @!Ms-MADIGAN : Yeah . @!Mr-HARRIS : We had made a decision we were going to get married on Monday and of course we had the weekend to think about it , you know , but we had talked about it earlier than that . But I remember ... @!Ms-MADIGAN : Yeah . @!Mr-HARRIS : ... waking up Monday morning going , ' Oh . ' You know , I was -- I said -- Amy said , ' We do n't have to get married today -- today if you do n't want to . ' @!Ms-MADIGAN : Yeah , I did . @!Mr-HARRIS : And I said , ' Let 's go have some breakfast , ' you know ? So we had a little breakfast in this little coffee shop and a little cup of coffee and a cigarette , felt a little better . And then we went down to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @!Ms-MADIGAN : And he turned b -- he -- he turned white , absolutely white . @!Mr-HARRIS : Yeah , it was surreal. @!Ms-MADIGAN : And he had to put his head between his legs and then he was OK. @!BRAVER : Is that true ? @!Ms-MADIGAN : I swear to God . @!Mr-HARRIS : I almost fainted , yeah . @!BRAVER : Is this true ? @!Ms-MADIGAN : Why -- why would we make that up ? I mean , I c ... @(Footage-of-couple) @!BRAVER : ( Voiceover ) In addition to their work together , they have each been successful independently . Madigan played Kevin Costner 's skeptical but loyal wife in " Field of Dreams . " qwq @ ( Excerpt-from- " Fiel @!BRAVER : ( Voiceover ) She was nominated for a best supporting actress Oscar in 1986 for her role as Gene Hackman 's troubled daughter in " Twice in a Lifetime . " qwq @ ( Excerpts-from- " Twi @!BRAVER : ( Voiceover ) Harris first burst on to the national scene with his role as astronaut John Glenn in " The Right Stuff . @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Voiceover ) He received an Academy Award nomination as best supporting actor for playing another space-related role -- the ground commander in " Apollo 13. " qwq @ ( Excerpts-from- " Apo @!BRAVER : ( Voiceover ) And Harris was nominated again for his supporting role as the television director in " The Truman Show . " qwq @ ( Excerpt-from- " The- Unidentified Reporter : A lot -- a lot of people suggest that -- that the nomination really , to a large degree , is the winner . Do you -- do you agree with that ? @!Mr-HARRIS : No. qwq @ ( Footage-of-Harris ; @!BRAVER : ( Voiceover ) Now Harris is a dark horse contender for a nomination as a leading actor for his portrayal of Jackson Pollock , an honor that could take his career to a whole new level . One of the things that 's said is that maybe this will mean that you do more leading roles in big movies ... @!Mr-HARRIS : Yeah . @!BRAVER : ... and not so many supporting roles , as great as they 've been . @!Mr-HARRIS @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the reasons I wanted to do the film in the first place was because I 'm an actor and I wanted to play the main guy , you know , and have it -- make a film that was about my character . Now here again , I 've invested -- I 've invested so much of my own money in " Pollock " that I 've -- I have got to work , and so I 'm doing a lot of jobs that are supporting parts , you know ? And so it 's , like , ' Well , maybe I broke through , but now I 'm breaking back through the other way . ' We 'll see . @!BRAVER : You know , there have to be times when one of you has a great part and maybe the other does n't have anything going at the same time . Is that hard ? @!Ms-MADIGAN : Sometimes fo -- fo -- in my situation , it 's hard just because I 'd like to work more and my opportunities are -- are n -- kind of little @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ supportive of ea -- each other 's choices and -- and what we 're able to do . So , I mean , I think , honestly , we 're pretty good at that stuff . @!BRAVER : Yeah . @!Ms-MADIGAN : Yeah . @!BRAVER : Do you -- do you ever feel competitive with each other at all ? @!Mr-HARRIS : Not -- no . Not anymore . I mean , the first -- I think the first year or two , there was a little bit of that in me , at least , you know , but it did n't last too long ... @!Ms-MADIGAN : No. @!Mr-HARRIS : ... you know ? @(Photo-of-couple) @!BRAVER : ( Voiceover ) Harris , Madigan , both age 50 and their seven-year-old daughter -- they did n't want her photographed -- seem to have a remarkably well-adjusted life , especially -- let 's face it -- for two movie stars . Tell me something funny about her . @!Mr-HARRIS : About Amy ? @!BRAVER : Yeah . @!Mr-HARRIS : Well , gosh -- well , there 's lots of little things @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ 's business . You know what I mean ? Except mine . @!Ms-MADIGAN : You know how it is . You look at -- you ask couples , ' Well , you know -- well , what is it , or what 's your secret of ' -- there 's no secret . We work really hard at it and Ed really -- he 's really the best friend I have . I mean , I want to hang out with him all the time , so I 'm pretty lucky . @(Photo-of-couple) @!OSGOOD : ( Voiceover ) Next , a diversion to a simpler time and place . @(Announcements) 
##54363 CHARLES @!OSGOOD , host : February is Black History Month , a good time to take note of an overlooked chapter of American black heritage involving a woman you see on this postage stamp . Randall Pinkston has the tale of a remarkable entrepreneur who began in the humblest of circumstances in the South before moving on to the grandest settings in the North . @(Footage-of-Hudson-) @!RANDALL-PINKSTON-r : @(Voiceover) Here in the Hudson River Valley , the captains of American industry built their mansions : John D. Rockefeller , Andrew Carnegie and financier Jay Gould . And so did Madam C.J. Walker , a little-known African-American who became one of the richest , most successful businesswomen in the nation almost 100 years ago . Let other mansions hide behind shrubs and fences . Madam Walker built her home right on the road , where everyone could see what she had accomplished . @(Photograph-of-Mada) @!PINKSTON : @(Voiceover) And what she had accomplished was nothing short of remarkable . @(Photograph-of-cabi) @!Ms-A'LELIA-BUNDLES : She was born Sarah Breedlove on a plantation in Delta , Louisiana , where her parents had been @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Deep South , with no formal education but lots of business savvy , Madam C.J. Walker built a financial empire , selling African-American hair-care products door to door . @(Photograph-of-Wond) @!Ms-BUNDLES : @(Voiceover) This was her first product . Her first two products were Vegetable Shampoo and Wonderful Hair Grower . @(Footage-of-Pinksto) @!PINKSTON : @(Voiceover) A'Lelia Bundles is the great-great granddaughter of Madam Walker and the other of a book about her , " On Her Own Ground . " @!Ms-BUNDLES : Madam Walker was very smart about marketing . She used her own image on her products , and sh -- that allowed other women to identify with not only her products , with -- but with her success . @(Footage-of-Vegetab) @!Ms-BUNDLES : So the idea of hope in a jar , which is a centuries-old way of selling products , was something that she employed . @!PINKSTON : And now this was her first picture . @(Photographs-of-Wal) @!Ms-BUNDLES : This is the -- the oldest picture that I know of her , and I think it was probably taken in the 1890s , and you can ... @!PINKSTON : @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ 1.50 a week as a laundry woman . One decade later , her company was making $ 1,000 a day . How did she do it ? As the story goes , she invented Wonderful Hair Grower to treat her own bald spots . @(Footage-of-Bundles) @!Ms-BUNDLES : She said she was so embarrassed by her appearance , that she prayed to God for a solution . And then she said three nights in a row , a big black man came to her in a dream and told her what to mix up for her hair . @(Footage-of-of-Walk) @!PINKSTON : @(Voiceover) Long before Avon or Mary Kay cosmetics , Madam Walker was training thousands of African-American women to sell her products door to door . @!Ms-BUNDLES : Oh , I love this . This is a -- a badge that the Walker agents wore at their national conventions . @(Photograph-of-peop) @!Mr-STANLEY-NELSON- : Before Madam Walker , for black women , there were really two choices , you know , f -- in -- in -- for professions . A black woman could b -- be a maid , you know , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ schoolteacher , if she was lucky , in a black school . That was about it . There was nothing ... @(Photographs-of-Sta) @!PINKSTON : @(Voiceover) Filmmaker Stanley Nelson 's grandfather was general manager of the Walker Company . In the mid- ' 80s for his documentary " Two Dollars and a Dream , " Nelson interviewed some of the women who had worked for Madam Walker . Unidentified Woman 1 : Her mannerisms got me . I knew she was a great woman , and we looked upon her as a great woman . Unidentified Woman 2 : I think that -- that Madam Walker made that great discovery and that she was doing so much to help our people and to help our women to look beautiful , and you know all women like to look beautiful and always look well groomed . @(Photograph-of-Walk) @!PINKSTON : @(Voiceover) The factory in Indianapolis was national headquarters of the Walker Company , but it was more than that . It was a symbol , just as she was . @(Footage-of-Walker-) @!Ms-BUNDLES : @(Voiceover) One -- one of the things that the company was @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ quality of their products but the success of African-Americans. @(Photograph-of-Walk) @!PINKSTON : @(Voiceover) As Madam Walker grew wealthy and famous , the lavish lifestyle she and her daughter enjoyed became legendary , even notorious . Some felt her mansion , Villa Lewaro , was over the top . @!Ms-BUNDLES : There were people who criticized her , who said , ' Why are you spending all of this money ? ' and , ' This is conspicuous consumption . ' And she countered that by telling them , ' I am building this home so that I can show young black boys and girls all of their possibilities . ' This house was built , as she said , with Negro money . She was using her money symbolically . @(Footage-of-Pinksto) @!PINKSTON : @(Voiceover) But she also used her money to help others and to fight the injustices of a segregated America . @!Ms-BUNDLES : @(Voiceover) Her first large contribution was a gift of $ 1,000 to the black YMCA in Indianapolis . And that made headlines in black newspapers all across the country , because it was the largest gift @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ be , like , $ 25,000 today . In 1919 , just before she died , she contributed $ 5,000 to the NAACP 's anti-lynching fund . It was the largest gift the NAACP had ever received and amounted to about a -- a tenth of their budget . @(Photograph-of-Walk) @!PINKSTON : @(Voiceover) One of A'Lelia Bundle 's favorite stories is about Madam Walker 's persistence in getting the attention of Booker T. Washington . The most influential black leader of his day , Washington had ignored her at a 1912 business conference . @!Ms-BUNDLES : She waited for the final banker to make his remarks , stood at her seat , looked toward Booker T. Washington and said , ' Surely , you 're not going to shut the door in my face . I am a woman who came from the cotton fields of the South . From there I was promoted to the washtub , and from there , I promoted myself . I have built my own factory on my own ground . ' Unidentified Woman 3 : And Madam Walker 's pro -- products were in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ really ? Unidentified Woman 3 : Oh , yes . @(Footage-of-Bundles) @!PINKSTON : @(Voiceover) For years , A'Lelia Bundles had been telling other people 's stories as a network news producer . Now she tells her family 's story to people who had never heard of Madam Walker . @!Ms-BUNDLES : That was the great part . Unidentified Woman 4 : It 's done . Thank you so much . @!Ms-BUNDLES : OK . Great . Unidentified Woman 5 : This is part of our history . It 's part of the legacy of America . Surely , it 's in all of our interest to know just a little bit -- just a little bit about someone who 's an icon . Unidentified Woman 6 : I think it 's time for people to know not just Madam 's name but her history , her legacy and what it takes to become a successful woman business owner . @!Ms-BUNDLES : This is really one of my treasures . This is the last letter that Madam wrote to her daughter , A'Lelia , before she died . @(Photograph-of-Walk) @!PINKSTON : @(Voiceover) @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ . In just 15 years , she had amassed a fortune , built a hair-care empire and left her mark on black America . @(Photograph-of-Walk) @!PINKSTON : @(Voiceover) Unrealized was her dream of a new company headquarters and entertainment complex in Indianapolis . That would come after her death . Filmmaker Stanley Nelson . @!Mr-NELSON : But it was really built as a monument to Madam Walker , so it was just this incredible building that had a movie theater , and it was rumored to be the first movie theater that was built for black people in this country . @(Photograph-of-Walk) @!Mr-NELSON : There were offices . There were stores . There was a soda fountain , restaurant . And I think what happened was it became the center for black life in Indianapolis . qwq @ ( Footage-of-Walker ' @!PINKSTON : @(Voiceover) Madam Walker 's daughter , A'Lelia , went on to live another American dream as the rich heiress to a business fortune , renowned for her parties and her patronage of the arts . @(Photographs-of-Wal) @!Ms-BUNDLES : They wrote about her -- Langston Hughes in his book @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ her the joy goddess of Harlem 's 1920s. @!PINKSTON : @(Voiceover) A'Lelia Walker died in 1931 . ' That was really the end of the gay times of the new Negro in Harlem , ' Langston Hughes wrote . ' The Depression brought everybody down a peg or two , and the Negroes had but a few pegs to fall . ' @(Footage-of-Walker-) @!PINKSTON : @(Voiceover) The Walker Company held on for another half-century , finally closing its doors in 1986 . The Walker Building still stands , a tribute to the vision of its founder . @!Ms-BUNDLES : It 's a national historic landmark . It 's been restored , and it is really a marvelous place . It 's a -- a building where it has -- the building has now come to life again . @(Photograph-of-Walk) @!PINKSTON : @(Voiceover) And so , too , has Madam C.J. Walker . A remarkable American woman , so far ahead of her time , she was almost forgotten . @(Visual-of-SUNDAY-M) @!OSGOOD : Ahead , two for the road : actors Ed Harris and Amy Madigan. @(Footage-of-Ellen-M) @!OSGOOD : @(Voiceover) But next @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ . @(Announcements) 
##54364 TROUBLE IN TINSELTOWN @!CHARLES-OSGOOD-ho : It may not be visible on the silver screen just yet , but there is Trouble in Tinseltown . Both the people who write the movies and the people who act in them are headed toward a showdown with the Hollywood studios , and so far there 's no sign of a hero riding in on a horse in the final reel to save the day . Our cover story is reported by Jerry Bowen. @(Footage-of-various) @!JERRY-BOWEN-report : @(Voiceover) It 's the talk of the season , on the red carpet circuit at the Hollywood awards shows . Unidentified Woman : God , I so hope there 's not a strike . @(Footage-of-movie-l) @!BOWEN : @(Voiceover) From movie locations on the streets of Los Angeles ... Unidentified Woman : Here we go , everyone . @!BOWEN : @(Voiceover) ... to a TV sound stage in New York City , it 's on everybody 's mind . @!Mr-JERRY-ORBACH-@1 : It 's not an idle -- an idle thing , a strike . It 's a very , very , very difficult thing to do @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ " Cast @!BOWEN : @(Voiceover) The dream factory that turns out feature films and TV shows for America and the world may be shut down . @(Excerpt-from-movie) @!BOWEN : @(Voiceover) That 's because contracts for the writers and the actors expire back to back this spring , and the impact on an industry where glitter and illusion add up to a lucrative reality could be crippling . @(Footage-of-Jack-Ky) @!Mr-JACK-KYSER-@1Lo : You 're already starting to see some dislocations because people have said , ' Well , the threat of a strike , I 'm not going to buy a new car . I 'm not going to buy a house . ' @!BOWEN : @(Voiceover) Jack Kyser is chief economist for the Los Angeles County Economic Development Corporation . @!Mr-KYSER : You could get up to about a $ 1.8 billion per month lost to the economy . @!BOWEN : Nearly $ 2 billion a month ? @!Mr-KYSER : Two billion a month . @!BOWEN : That 's just the loss for the local Hollywood economy from strikes that none of the parties involved say they want but all have been @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ are familiar and difficult , focusing on ego and money . @!Mr-KYSER : A film is like a -- a pig , and the studios have found ways to get more squeal out of that pig , and so the writers and the actors want their piece of that pig , too . @(Footage-of-video-s) @!BOWEN : @(Voiceover) And most of the issues for the writers and the actors are the same : a greater share of the income from videocassettes and DVDs , foreign TV and movie distribution and cable and a guaranteed piece of the emerging Internet market . qwq @ ( Footage-of-Disney , @!BOWEN : @(Voiceover) The studios claim the writers ' proposals would cost up to $ 2.4 billion over three years if also applied to other unions . The writers say the figure is less than a third that . @(Footage-of-movie-a) @!BOWEN : @(Voiceover) The writers are also pushing creative rights issues , eliminating the ' film by ' credit taken by some directors and securing a role on the movie set in rewrites and cast readings , issues opposed by the Directors Guild . @(Footage-of-people-) @!BOWEN @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ alliance of studios and networks and the Writers Guild , representing 11,000 writers . John Wells , the executive producer of the TV shows " West Wing , " " E/R " and " Third Watch " is president of the Writers Guild West . @!Mr-JOHN-WELLS-@1Pr : Every time that you have large economic issues that are being addressed and creative rights issues in our business , those are difficult to do and only infrequently are we able to do it without work stoppages . It 's certainly our hope that in this case we 'll be able to do it without -- without a strike but , you know , history is not particularly kind on that subject . @(Footage-of-Jeffrey) @!BOWEN : @(Voiceover) Jeffrey Katzenberg is a partner in Dreamworks/SKG Studios . @!Mr-JEFFREY-KATZENB : I think it 's probably pretty simple . I 'd say it 's probably money and respect . That would be literally what it comes down to . You know , there are lots of ways you can package those issues . But in the end , you know , they want to be paid more @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ -- in their job . @(Footage-of-Adam-Ro) @!BOWEN : @(Voiceover) Adam Rodman , a former board member of the Writers Guild , is prepared to strike if need be , but it could n't happen at a worse time . Rodman just signed a deal with HBO for a show he created . @!Mr-ADAM-RODMAN-@1S : We 're stuck like a lot of people waiting to hear if there 's going to be a strike or not and how that 's going to impact us . I mean , HBO 's trying to decide : Do we want to order a series ? If we 're going to order a series , how many episodes do we order ? And -- and they 're worried , of course , about getting caught halfway through a production cycle and not being able to finish . @(Footage-of-David-K) @!Mr-DAVID-KISSINGER : It 's as if the orchestra on the Titanic started drilling holes just as the iceberg appeared . @!BOWEN : @(Voiceover) David Kissinger -- yes , that is Henry 's son -- agrees that the timing is awful . Kissinger is president of Studios USA , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ With ad sales lagging and the economy sluggish , he believes a writers ' strike could be a disaster . @(Footage-of-strikin) @!Mr-KISSINGER : The last time there was a major writers ' strike , in 1988 , network television lost , I believe , 9 percent of its viewership , which has never been recovered . And I think that 's very important for us to remember as we contemplate the possibility of another strike , because we 're already at a level that 's about 50 percent lower than it was at that time . qwq @ ( Footage-of- " Law- &a; Unidentified Man : Ready and mark . Unidentified Man : And action . @!BOWEN : @(Voiceover) Studios USA produces " Law and Order " and the spinoff " Special Victims Unit , " both created by writer-producer Dick Wolf . Wolf has been criticized for making extra episodes of the two shows as a hedge against a strike . Some other producers refused network requests to accelerate production . Unidentified Man : Cut . @!Mr-DICK-WOLF-@1Wri : I do n't really consider it accelerated production . It 's a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ " Special Victims Unit , " we have multiple year pickups. qwq @ ( Footage-from- " Law- @!Mr-WOLF : @(Voiceover) We have an ongoing business relationship and signed contracts to deliver episodes . @!BOWEN : @(Voiceover) Wolf fears a prolonged strike will get viewers out of the habit of watching television . @!Mr-WOLF : It 's a lose situation for everybody . It 's like the Cold War . This -- there was a -- a -- an acronym called MAD , which was ' mutually assured destruction . ' @(Footage-of-Daniel-) @!BOWEN : @(Voiceover) For set dresser Daniel Fisher , that means preparing for the worst . @!Mr-DANIEL-FISHER-@ : Since rumor of this started last year , we -- we 've put a little away in our paychecks every week , you know , spend a little less . I know there are more people eating peanut butter sandwiches at lunchtime than going out to -- to diners. qwq @ ( Footage-from- " Law- @!BOWEN : @(Voiceover) Actor Jerry Orbach says nobody he knows , except a few hard-liners , really wants a strike . @!Mr-ORBACH : The only people who @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ work anyway , and that probably goes for the writers , too . I do n't know what 's worth striking over , but certainly the only leverage that union people have is the threat of a strike . What else -- what other leverage do they have ? @!BOWEN : @(Voiceover) And , says Orbach , it 's the underworked actors who really need the help . @!Mr-ORBACH : Some 90-some percent of our actors are out of work most of the time . So these issues are very real . They 're life and death issues , bread and butter issues , and if you care at all about people -- people 's working conditions and their livelihood -- then you have to be on the side of the angels and the union . @(Footage-of-strikin) @!BOWEN : @(Voiceover) When the actors went on strike in 1980 , Ed Asner was on the picket line and later became president of the Screen Actors Guild . He says the issues are the same -- economic -- and so is the image problem , that rich actors are simply after more . @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ would say , ' Well , what 's he striking about ? Get out of here . ' They did not take into account until the smaller actors -- the -- the lower-earning actors -- there are no small actors -- began talking about what they earn and what they had to do to keep alive . @(Footage-of-William) @!BOWEN : @(Voiceover) William Daniels is president of the Screen Actors Guild now . @(Footage-of-strikin) @!BOWEN : @(Voiceover) He led a union strike against advertisers last year that shut down the making of most commercials for six months . @!Mr-WILLIAM-DANIELS : In an odd way , I think it -- it made us a stronger union being able to do that , and I think that 's one of the things that the industry is afraid of right now , that we were able to do that kind of a strike . They were never sure that we were able to do that , and if we can do it then , we can do it now . But that 's not the kind of atmosphere that I 'm trying to create . @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ . @(Aerial-footage-of-) @!BOWEN : @(Voiceover) Ironically , all the talk of a strike has caused a temporary boom in Hollywood . Last month was the busiest January ever for film production as studios stockpiled movies in a hurry -- too big a hurry , say some . @!Mr-DANIELS : That 's a definite possibility , you -- that you might see some inferior material . @!BOWEN : Well , inferior is a very nice way to say lousy . @!Mr-DANIELS : Well , yes . Exactly . @(Footage-from-vario) @!BOWEN : @(Voiceover) If the writers and actors strike , the impact will be seen first on network TV , scripted programs replaced by more of the so-called reality TV shows and newsmagazines . The worry for writers and actors is that more than a few of the replacements will become permanent . qwq @ ( Footage-from- " Surv @!BOWEN : @(Voiceover) Studios USA president David Kissinger thinks the strikes may happen , but they do n't have to . Yours is a name that 's synonymous with diplomacy . Do you see a way out of this ? @!Mr-KISSINGER : I do @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ avoid this . And I also think that it 's sobering for both sides as the economy worsens to contemplate making a bad situation worse . @(Footage-of-Bowen-a) @!BOWEN : @(Voiceover) And writer Adam Rodman is holding out hope that his big HBO break wo n't break down . @!Mr-RODMAN : I think it would be almost criminal if we end up getting into one . The issues that are on the table , I think , are resolvable . I think there 's enough money there that there 's a deal to be made that both sides can live with , and I think my definition of a good deal is -- is something that neither side is happy with and both sides can live with . @(Aerial-footage-of-) @!BOWEN : @(Voiceover) The Writers Guild talks are continuing and the Screen Actors are waiting in the wings for their turn . @(Visual-of-SUNDAY-M) @!OSGOOD : @(Voiceover) Ahead , a true story worthy of Hollywood : The rags-to-riches saga of Madam C.J. Walker . @(Announcements) 
##54366 COUPLES Announcer : It 's SUNDAY MORNING on CBS , and here again is Charles Osgood . @!CHARLES-OSGOOD-ho : We continue our monthlong look at Couples this morning with a glimpse at a show business marriage that seems to break the mold . As our " 60 Minutes " colleague Lesley Stahl is about to show us , the two halves of this couple are n't just succeeding in their careers ; they 're succeeding in their marriage as well . qwq @ ( Footage-of-Sean- " P @!LESLEY-STAHL-repor : @(Voiceover) Celebrity couples attract a lot of attention . Unidentified Reporters : Kim . Kim . Kim . @!STAHL : @(Voiceover) Yet when two Hollywood types get married , it often seems the marriage license , like a carton of milk , comes with an expiration date ; eventually things sour . Then how do you explain actress Blythe Danner and her producer-director husband Bruce Paltrow ? They 've been married for 31 years . Is there one virtue , one quality , that each of you has that you -- that is the reason you 've stayed together @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , you know . He 's just -- he 's the most honest man I 've ever met in my life . I mean , he can be -- he can be rough , but you always know that you 're getting the truth . @!STAHL : And what 's her trait or quality ? @!Mr-BRUCE-PALTROW-@ : Blythe makes you be better in every way . I mean , her expectations of everything you do , I always feel a response that I have to really do my best in every way . @(Photographs-of-Dan) @!STAHL : @(Voiceover) Used to be you said the name Blythe Danner and people thought , ' Ah , yes , that wonderful actress . ' Bruce Paltrow many knew as a successful TV producer . But now they 're best known as Gwyneth 's parents . But that 's not the only thing that makes them interesting . She 's mainline Philadelphia . He 's Jewish New York . @!Mr-PALTROW : When we got married , I had no money , no job , no prospects and hair out here . All four of the parents @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ -- I mean , my parents thought something was wrong with me anyway . qwq @ ( Excerpt-from- " 1776 @!STAHL : @(Voiceover) The first time I saw Blythe Danner , she was playing the wife of Thomas Jefferson in the musical " 1776. " qwq @ ( Excerpt-from- " 1776 @!STAHL : @(Voiceover) For the next 30 years , she would appear in scores of films , including " Prince of Tides " with Nick Nolte ... qwq @ ( Excerpts-from- " Pri @!STAHL : @(Voiceover) ... and three Woody Allen films . Yet , the stage was her first love . She won a Tony Award in 1970 for " Butterflies are Free , " and has starred in numerous Broadway plays ever since . @(Excerpts-from-1970) @!STAHL : @(Voiceover) Bruce Paltrow is a writer , producer and director of such classic TV series as " The White Shadow , " about a basketball coach in an inner-city high school , and " St. Elsewhere , " the forerunner of reality-based hospital programs like " ER . " So tell us the love story . How did you meet ? @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ You make it funnier than I could possibly . @!Mr-PALTROW : It -- we -- I was working off Broadway , and it was the winter of ' 68 and it was freezing cold , and it was also the winter of no bras . And ... @!STAHL : There you go . @!Mr-PALTROW : Yeah . I mean , it was just a sea of see-through blouses and one ingenue after another . And then Blythe came out to audition , and she took off her coat . And she had on another coat . And she took off that coat . And then she had on a sweaters and galoshes and stuff . @!Ms-DANNER : The old lady 's Lord &amp; Taylor blou -- brown suit . @!Mr-PALTROW : And I for some reason could n't help -- I started to -- she just came to audition ... @!Ms-DANNER : He started to rib me. @!Mr-PALTROW : And I started to rib her . @!Ms-DANNER : From the audience . @!Mr-PALTROW : From -- you know , I could n't help myself . @!Ms-DANNER : And I thought , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Who proposed ? @!Mr-PALTROW : I would say ... @!STAHL : Tell the truth . @!Mr-PALTROW : Blythe had , you know -- had opened in " Butterflies , " and all of a sudden there was so much scrutiny . And we -- we -- she was nervous that people would find out we were living together , so we got married quickly . @!STAHL : And we 're talking about the ' 60s , Blythe , when nobody cared . @!Mr-PALTROW : Yeah . @!STAHL : Everybody was living ... @!Mr-PALTROW : Yeah , I know . @!Ms-DANNER : I know . I know . But , you know , I really grew up in a -- in a traditional home , and I did n't want to disappoint my parents . And I loved them very much . And I just -- I was always a " good girl " sort of . I mean , not always . @!Mr-PALTROW : ... ( Unintelligible ) it 's really kind of ... @(Photographs-of-fam) @!STAHL : @(Voiceover) Gwyneth was born three years after they were married . Then their son @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a television director . The new parents made a simple deal : They would both raise the children . Did you take your kids with you on loc ... @!Ms-DANNER : Everywhere . @!STAHL : On location when you were working ? @!Ms-DANNER : Everywhere . @!STAHL : Both of you ? @!Mr-PALTROW : Everywhere . Everywhere . @!Ms-DANNER : I nursed each child for a year because my mother had done it , and I was determined to do it . @!Mr-PALTROW : When Gwynie was born , Blythe was working , and I had no money , no job , no anything . So what would happen is I would be -- I was the nanny . I would go get Gwynie out of -- out of her crib and bring her to the bed because Blythe was , you know , shooting movies or rehearsals . And she would b ... @!Ms-DANNER : I was passed out . I did n't even ... @!Mr-PALTROW : And she would breast-feed . And when she 'd get done , I would take Gwyneth and then I would burp her . @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ And we would spend our days together . So in the beginning , I mean , she really had two mothers . @!STAHL : Did either of you in your careers set aside time that was inviolate ? Weekends , to be with the kids , no matter what ? @!Ms-DANNER : Well , that was most of our l -- life . @!Mr-PALTROW : Yes . I mean , we never actually had -- yeah . @!Ms-DANNER : I mean , I thought you were going to say for each other , which we never did , which is a miracle that we did survive . @!Mr-PALTROW : Yeah . Yeah . @(Photograph-of-Dann) @!STAHL : @(Voiceover) So how did they manage to stay together for 31 years ? @!Ms-DANNER : This is sort of half joking because there must be a grain of truth to it , but we spend half of our lives -- we have spent probably half of our time ... @!Mr-PALTROW : A lot . @!Ms-DANNER : ... a third of our time apart . @(Footage-of-the-fam) @!STAHL : @(Voiceover) And still they must have done something @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ at the Academy Awards or on the set of a movie , Gwyneth Paltrow idolizes her parents . @!Ms-GWYNETH-PALTROW : It 's hard to raise children . And they were so always there and so involved . And they really let us just grow up into what we were pre-destined to be . @(Footage-of-family-) @!Ms-PALTROW : @(Voiceover) And -- and then they throw in , you know , good manners and chew with your mouth closed , and then you turn out OK. @!STAHL : So , here you are , two incredibly co -- accomplished people , both with just sparkling resumes of all the things you 've done , and here , you end up in the year 2001 and what are you known for ? You 're Gwyneth Paltrow 's parents . @!Ms-DANNER : Our daughter . @!Mr-PALTROW : Yeah . How wonderful . @!Ms-DANNER : Which we 're very proud of . @!Mr-PALTROW : How wonderful . @!STAHL : Really ? @!Mr-PALTROW : Wonderful . It 's just thrilling how ... @!Ms-DANNER : I mean , I 'm -- I 'm amazed at how many women have @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ daughter ? ' which floors me . I ca n't -- I ca n't conceive of how a mother could be jealous of her daughter , especially when she 's a tremendous ... @(Photograph-of-Dann) @!Ms-DANNER : @(Voiceover) ... you know , represents our family so eloquently and so beautifully . And is just a light that 's -- that gives -- makes us valid some -- you know , validates us. @(Childhood-photogra) @!STAHL : @(Voiceover) Starting when she was very young , Gwyneth appeared with her mother on stage . Unidentified Man : I 'm just thinking about shooting ... @!Mr-PALTROW : For the shooting , that might be nice , yes . @!STAHL : @(Voiceover) Two years ago , Bruce directed Gwyneth in the film " Duets . " What should have been happy time for the family instead became a time of great stress . Bruce Paltrow was diagnosed with throat cancer just as shooting on " Duets " was set to begin . Surgery ... @!Mr-PALTROW : Mm-hmm . @!STAHL : ... radiation ... @!Mr-PALTROW : Mm-hmm . @!STAHL : ... and as I understand it , you @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ . @!Mr-PALTROW : Mm-hmm . @!STAHL : What ? Just -- how -- how long after radiation did you go back ? Weeks , right ? @!Mr-PALTROW : Thirteen days . @!STAHL : Thirteen days . @!Ms-DANNER : More tenacity than anyone I 've ever known . @!Mr-PALTROW : Yeah . Yeah . I -- yeah . @(Footage-of-Paltrow) @!STAHL : @(Voiceover) During the filming , Bruce was on a feeding tube which Blythe would prepare . His illness , do you think it 's changed the marriage ? @!Ms-DANNER : I think it 's certainly given us a deeper appreciation of -- of one another . You know , I think -- I -- I was amazed when it happened . I thought I would fall apart , because he is our rock , for all of us . Even when he was ill , he would -- he would forge ahead , you know ? That 's what -- you just had tremendous admiration for that . I do n't know anybody who 's like that . @!Mr-PALTROW : Stay . Good boy . @(Footage-of-Paltrow) @!STAHL : @(Voiceover) Two years @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ With the children now on their own , he is spending much of his time writing a new film script at the family 's home in California . Blythe is spending much of her time in New York . Her response to the empty nest is to throw herself into a series of stage performances . @(Excerpt-from-publi) @!STAHL : @(Voiceover) Earlier this month , she appeared in a dramatic reading of Jules Feiffer 's " Little Murders . " @(Excerpt-from-publi) @!STAHL : @(Voiceover) And now she 's in rehearsal for a role in Stephen Sondheim 's " Follies , " which opens in April . @(Footage-of-Stahl-r) @!Ms-DANNER : @(Voiceover) I think one of the things , as you grow older , is to constantly keep pushing the parameters of your safety zone , and not to become complacent or , you know , just to -- just to take risks . And if you fall on your face , you fall on your face , but better to ... @!STAHL : If you had to give advice to your children about what makes a good marriage ... @!Ms-DANNER : Sticking it @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @!Mr-PALTROW : I always say jokingly , well , how -- what 's the secret of your marriage ? We said we both did n't want to get divorced at the same time . I mean , you just -- I remember Jake must have been 10 or 11 , and we were outside the house . I guess everybody else was getting divorced . He said to me , ' You -- are you and Mom going to get divorced ? ' I said , ' Do n't be ridiculous . No , of course not . ' And he said , ' Well , you fight . ' And I said , ' We may be fighting but we 're not -- do n't be ridiculous . Never . We 're not going to get divorced . ' He said , ' Promise me you 're not going to get divorced . ' I said , ' I -- Jake , I promise you , I will never get divorced from your mother . ' @!STAHL : Oh . @!Mr-PALTROW : Yeah . ' Really ? ' I said @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ might kill her , though . ' He said , ' That 's not funny , Dad . That 's not funny . ' @(Visual-of-SUNDAY-M) @!OSGOOD : @(Voiceover) Ahead , California , here we come . @(Announcements) 
##54368 CHARLES @!OSGOOD , host : For a rock performer , there 's no bigger night than this coming Wednesday , the night of the Grammy Awards in Los Angeles , unless it 's the night of a performance by a youth symphony orchestra in Burlington , Vermont . If that sounds a little fishy to you , you 're right . It is a bit ' phishy . ' That 's Phish spelled P-H-I-S-H. @(Footage-of-Phish-l) @!OSGOOD : ( Voiceover ) You may or may not have heard them on the radio , or seen them on MTV , but the group Phish gives an electrifying musical sideshow that is legendary in the world of rock and roll . They are musical acrobats , and their ringleader for 18 years -- since he was 18 -- has been Trey Anastasio. @(Footage-of-Phish-c) @!OSGOOD : ( Voiceover ) Phish is one of America 's top grossing live acts , and this year , their recordings have been nominated for two Grammys . They 've even got a Ben &amp; Jerry 's ice cream flavor named after them . But last fall @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ : ( Voiceover ) Trey Anastasio left the path to superstardom to return to the back roads of Vermont . @(Footage-of-Trey-An) @!Mr-TREY-ANASTASIO- : Luckily Phish was an odd band , so we were pretending to be rock stars , I think . In reality , we were just a bunch of geeky Vermonters . But we had fun playing rock star , I think , for a while . @(Footage-of-house-e) @!OSGOOD : ( Voiceover ) And so after 15 albums and 1,400 performances , Trey is spending a lot of time in his 150-year-old barn outside of Burlington , holed up with the same old guitar but a lot of new ideas . @!Mr-ANASTASIO : You know , ' rock star ' has a lot of -- has a lot of -- there 's -- there 's other job qualifications you need for ' rock star ' ... @(Photographs-of-Phi) @!Mr-ANASTASIO : ... that -- that do n't have anything to do with being a musician . You have to act like an idiot , publicly . No , you know , you have to go to award shows and stuff , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ 's the thing , you can get caught up in that . It 's a lot of fun , but it 's not as fun as writing music . @(Photographs-of-Ana) @!OSGOOD : ( Voiceover ) After collaborating with some of the best in the business , guitar virtuosos like B.B. King and Neil Young , Trey has re-connected with the man who first taught him how to write music , his long time mentor , composer Ernie Stires. @(Footage-of-Anastas) @!Mr-ERNIE-STIRES-@1 : You have to find the originality within the mind of the guy and help him to do it , and maybe he has it and maybe he does n't . But if he 's original , and Trey is , that 's what I spotted . @(Footage-of-Vermont) @!OSGOOD : ( Voiceover ) So he pushed his most famous student further . Ernie had the idea of putting Trey together with the Vermont Youth Orchestra . @!Mr-TROY-PETERS-@1C : They 're actually in tempo here . @!Mr-ANASTASIO : Oh ! I was probably more timid than they were in the sense that I 've never played with an orchestra before , and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ could n't get used to , like there 's no beat . Unidentified Girl 1 : You know , you could tell he was nervous . And especially because I -- you know , I sit right next to him , and I could definitely tell . Unidentified Girl 2 : I never imagined myself , like , actually watching a rock star . It was so cool to see him play , and just -- he kind of stepped out of persona , I guess , a little bit . It was -- I do n't know- , t was really cool to watch him . @(Footage-of-Vermont) @!Mr-PETERS : I think the kids loved it , to be honest with you . To see him , this big star , sit down in front of them and be almost intimidated , you know . It made them realize that this was something special . @!OSGOOD : ( Voiceover ) More than just inviting Trey to play with his students , conductor Troy Peters invited him to compose for them , too . @!Mr-ANASTASIO : And you know what ? This @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ should be . There should be air , there should be ... @!Mr-PETERS : Mm-hmm . @!OSGOOD : ( Voiceover ) For Trey , the opportunity was a first . @!Mr-ANASTASIO : The orchestral world can be a little judgmental of a rock star handing them a score . @(Footage-of-musical) @!Mr-ANASTASIO : ( Voiceover ) So one -- he would say , ' One way you can really win people over is to make sure you 're neat and clean and everything is readable , and all your sharps are where they should be , and your flats . ' @(Sings) He 's putting in the new bass line . @(Footage-of-Stires-) @!OSGOOD : ( Voiceover ) Trey composed a classical piece that is rooted in one of Phish 's best-known songs , a playful musical tale about a pig named Guyute. qwq @ ( Footage-of- " Guyute @!Mr-ANASTASIO : @(Sings) ' Guyute was the ugly pig ... ' " Guyute " is an interesting one because I wrote it as a structure of melody and chords and form , and then Phish played it for a number of years . @(Footage-of-Anastas) @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ we only had four people , so we did our best . @!OK-And-then-this-w# @(Footage-of-Vermont) @!Mr-PETERS : I think Trey brings to the table a musicianship that classical musicians talk about , and some have , but that a lot of us do n't as stay in touch with as we should , which is that connection to the ear and the intuition as much as to the fingers and to the brain . Do n't count it . Just feel it . Unidentified Girl 3 : I was thinking we could split it up , like maybe she could only do -- or I could only do the off-beat type things , then he other could do all the notes , and ... @!Mr-ANASTASIO : OK . Yeah , you want to try it ? Unidentified Girl 2 : Sure . @!Mr-ANASTASIO : OK . Just that -- stick that in . Unidentified Girl 2 : OK. @!Mr-ANASTASIO : And -- and you 'll do high note ... Unidentified Girl 1 : Sure . @!Mr-ANASTASIO : ... across the top ? @(Footage-of-orchest) @!Mr-ANASTASIO : ( Voiceover ) The goal to me @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ musician in some way into the music , so that 's like a communal , bringing together of people . I tried to , in some way , inject some of their personality into -- into the piece . Unidentified Boy : He kind of wants us to lead a lot more than we do . But he has a lot more ideas than we do , so he ends up leading anyway , but he kept on asking us to share our opinions and stuff when we were working with him . @!Mr-ANASTASIO : Oh ! Unidentified Youth : Like that ? @!Mr-ANASTASIO : Do that . Do that . Unidentified Girl 1 : He 's so respectful of us and our ideas , and he acts like a normal guy and treats us like we 're , you know , equal to him , and it 's just really -- it 's really great the way he works with us. @!Mr-ANASTASIO : Good ... ( unintelligible ) . All right . Cool . @(Footage-of-theater) @!OSGOOD : ( Voiceover ) After months of rehearsing comes the time to perform to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ very different worlds , classical music lovers and Phish fanatics . Unidentified Man : Hi . Going to see Trey with the orchestra . It 's going to be good . @(Footage-of-orchest) @!Mr-PETERS : Please join me in welcoming to the stage Ernie Stires and Trey Anastasio. @!OSGOOD : ( Voiceover ) For Trey , playing to a passionately attentive audience was just like old times . But this concert offered him a special opportunity : To play the music of the man who taught him , and in turn to hear a full orchestra play some music of his own . @!Mr-ANASTASIO : ( Voiceover ) I hope that -- that there 's some kind of doors opening up for some of the musicians in the orchestra , that -- that maybe by working together , they -- they see opportunities that they did n't see before . In this program , you know , I 'm playing Er -- Ernie 's piece , and they 're playing my piece . That 's what Ernie did for me , so I 'm hoping that that 's what I 'll do @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ wo n't see Trey Anastasio at this week 's Grammy . He 's heading out on a solo concert tour , without Phish as the bait . @(Visual-of-SUNDAY-M) @!OSGOOD : ( Voiceover ) A preview of this week 's Grammy awards coming up . And a place at the table with Jackson Pollock , a film review from John Leonard . @(Announcements) 
##54369 PAIN @!CHARLES-OSGOOD-ho : According to a SUNDAY MORNING/CBS News poll out today , almost one American in five lives with chronic pain , whether diagnosed by a doctor or not . For Americans over 65 , make that one in four . The pain these millions of people feel is very real . But now , with new research and treatments , the hope of easing that pain is becoming very real as well . Our cover story is reported now by Martha Teichner . Unidentified Man 1 : It 's as if someone were hitting you very , very hard with a fist . Unidentified Woman 1 : It 's shooting hot pain . Feels like somebody took a cattle probe to my foot , constant . @(Footage-of-medical) @!MARTHA-TEICHNER-re : @(Voiceover) There is no machine to assess pain . Unidentified Man 2 : It 's as though somebody took an ice pick and just drove it into my neck or my ear . Unidentified Woman 2 : Mm , that hurts . Unidentified Man 3 : That hurts a little bit there ? Unidentified Woman 2 : @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ been measured by metaphor or not measured at all , except in the faces of its sufferers , the contortions of their bodies ; the pleas of their relatives . qwq @ ( Excerpt-from- " Term @!TEICHNER : Shirley MacLaine 's frantic mother in the Academy Award-winning " Terms of Endearment " was no exaggeration . qwq @ ( Excerpt-from- " Term @(Footage-of-medical) @!TEICHNER : @(Voiceover) Studies published in America 's most respected medical journals over the last 30 years have recognized that pain is often under-treated , even ignored ... qwq @ ( Footage-of-patient Unidentified Woman 3 : One , two , three . @!TEICHNER : @(Voiceover) ... forcing changes in every hospital , nursing home and clinic in the United States . And that 's just the beginning . qwq @ ( Footage-of-hospita Unidentified Woman 4 : On a scale from one to 10 , how is your pain now ? If 10 is the absolute worst you can imagine and zero is none ... @!TEICHNER : @(Voiceover) As of January 1st of this year , medical facilities must use this zero to 10 scale to assess pain regularly @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ signs . Then they must control that pain to the best of their ability , or risk losing their accreditation . The new standards have been described as the bill of rights for pain sufferers . Unidentified Woman 5 : And your pain level is where on a scale of one to 10 ? Unidentified Man 4 : About a three . Unidentified Woman 5 : About a three ? @!TEICHNER : What is pain ? @!Ms-SHEILA-GLEESON- : Pain is whatever the experiencing person says it is. @(Footage-of-Sheila-) @!Ms-GLEESON : No pain ? That 's good . @!TEICHNER : @(Voiceover) Sheila Gleeson helps supervise the post-operative unit at Moffitt/Long Hospital , which is part of the University of California San Francisco . UCSF is one of the world 's leading centers for pain . @(Footage-of-Teichne) @!TEICHNER : So we have n't seen anybody screaming . Why is that ? @!Ms-GLEESON : Well , you know what , our anesthesiologists are very aggressive about giving people pain medicine in surgery , so lots of times when they come out , they do n't have pain . It 's a traumatic experience that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @!TEICHNER : @(Voiceover) In fact , according to Gleeson , the more pain you 're in , the slower your recovery , as she had to tell a patient recently who was refusing pain medication . @!Ms-GLEESON : I talked to him , I said , ' You know , you do n't -- you do n't have to deal with it . ' I said , ' Your goals today are that you have to be able to walk and take deep breaths , and I want you to take a deep breath for me right now . Can you do it ? ' And he could n't do it , and so he said , ' OK . I 'll take more pain medicine . ' @(Footage-of-Gleeson) @!TEICHNER : @(Voiceover) But undertreating pain can have much bigger consequences . The more doctors have learned about the nervous system , the more they 've come to realize that if they do n't treat acute pain quickly and aggressively , the more likely it is they may actually cause that pain to become permanent . @!Dr-ALAN-BASBAUM-@1 : Do n't be a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Well , I can handle it . I 'll put up with it , I can live with it , ' I think that 's a mistake . Think of pain as a disease , not a symptom . @(Footage-of-UCSF-si) @!TEICHNER : @(Voiceover) Alan Basbaum heads the department of anatomy at the University of California San Francisco . @!Dr-BASBAUM : When pain persists , or an injury persists , input continues into the spinal cord and there are changes that take place in the sensitivity of the spinal cord . If you will , and the word I like to use is there is a memory of the experience . @(Footage-of-model-o) @!TEICHNER : @(Voiceover) Doctors now know that the spinal cord literally rewires itself and tells the brain there is pain even after there should n't be any . The goal is to eliminate pain messages to the spinal cord before the process has a chance to get started . @!Dr-PAMELA-PALMER-@ : I -- it 's real -- it 's a -- it 's a shame , and I think that if more doctors suffered from a chronic pain condition themselves @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ bad thing , because they would understand that ... qwq @ ( Footage-of-Dr. -Pam @!TEICHNER : @(Voiceover) Dr. Pamela Palmer is director of UCSF 's Pain Management Center . @!Dr-PALMER : What a lot of patients come in and say is it 's not so much the pain that 's bothering them , it 's that they ca n't live their life . @!Mr-BOB-SIMON-@1Pai : Last night , I fell asleep , I was crying . I -- and I 'm a big person , I do n't cry easily . @(Photographs-of-Bob) @!TEICHNER : @(Voiceover) Bob Simon was a physical education teacher for 30 years , a baseball coach , when his spine began to disintegrate . After the two back surgeries that were supposed to fix it , he was left in harrowing pain . @!Mr-SIMON : It changes every nuance of one 's life -- one 's relations with one 's wife , to just getting dressed in the morning . @(Footage-of-pain-ma) @!Dr-PALMER : Managing your drugs effectively , maximizing pain relief , minimizing side effects . @!TEICHNER : @(Voiceover) Before he found his way to Dr. Palmer at @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ dozens of pills a day , heavy-duty morphine-based painkillers . He could n't even drive . @!Dr-PALMER : OK . And you say to me , ' They 're helping a little bit , but I ca n't handle the side effects . I ca n't drive , I ca n't remember where I put my keys . ' @(Footage-of-Palmer-) @!TEICHNER : @(Voiceover) Dr. Palmer took him off most of those drugs and substituted a pain pump , surgically implanted under his skin . It delivers a pre-programmed level of morphine and other medications directly to where his pain is . Simon remains clear-headed and gets more relief on less morphine . @(Footage-of-Palmer-) @!Ms-SUSAN-MEEHAN-@1 : @(Voiceover) Thank God for the morphine pump and for all the other things I 've discovered to help manage the pain . @!TEICHNER : @(Voiceover) As Susan Meehan learned , management of excruciating spinal pain involves a whole list of things : spinal nerve blocks , physical therapy , psychotherapy , even acupuncture and biofeedback . But it was her reliance on morphine , she says , that caused her husband to walk out on what @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @!Ms-MEEHAN : I can remember him saying one day , ' I would never take morphine . ' And I looked back at him and said , ' You have no clue what you would do if your body was on fire 24 hours a day . ' He viewed using morphine and pain management as a moralistic judgment . @!TEICHNER : In other words , you were weak because you could n't stand the pain . @!Ms-MEEHAN : I was -- I was weak . @!Dr-PALMER : We like to break out the difference between physical dependence and addiction . @(Footage-of-patient) @!TEICHNER : @(Voiceover) Dr. Palmer speaks for a substantial proportion of pain specialists who say morphine gets a bad rap , that for most patients , especially those who are terminally ill , addiction is a non-issue . But tell that to some doctors . @!Dr-PALMER : What I think a lot of these doctors want is they just want us to take that patient from them . They say , ' This is too complicated . I really do n't understand the pain pathways . I really do @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ drugs because of the legal implications . Just take them from me. ' @!Dr-MICHAEL-ROWBOTH : How many days did it take for the rash to get all the way to the size it is now ? Unidentified Man 5 : Oh , a couple of days . @!Dr-ROWBOTHAM : A couple of days . @(Footage-of-patient) @!TEICHNER : @(Voiceover) One of the many agonizing conditions that do n't respond well to opiates like morphine is shingles . A variant of the virus that causes chickenpox , it attacks the nervous system . @!Dr-ROWBOTHAM : That 's a disorder that is perfect for clinical research . qwq @ ( Footage-of-Dr. -Row @!Dr-ROWBOTHAM : I do n't see any definite scars that I would say are from the shingles rash . @!TEICHNER : @(Voiceover) Dr. Michael Rowbotham , a research scientist at UCSF , is studying why some people ca n't get rid of their pain long after their shingles rash has disappeared . @!Dr-ROWBOTHAM : I think the exciting things are going to be understanding how acute nerve injury unfolds and to find places in that cycle , in that cascade , where @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to restart . @(Footage-of-cone-sn) @!TEICHNER : @(Voiceover) Snails -- that 's right snails -- may provide one answer to the question of precision pain relief . Cone snails from the Philippines inject paralyzing toxins into their prey ; they target the creature 's nervous system . Drug companies are adapting the toxins for human use . @!Dr-BASBAUM : Why do they work in a human or an animal ? Because the same receptor that exists in the prey of the snail -- it could be a fish , a small fish -- exists in my spinal cord , in your spinal cord . @(Footage-of-cone-sn) @!TEICHNER : @(Voiceover) The spinal cord connection is what interested UCSF scientist Alan Basbaum in taking part in the snail research , in linking a new clue to the mystery of why the spinal cord develops that memory of pain that wo n't go away . @!Dr-BASBAUM : I mean , the good news is that the basic science of pain mechanisms has now identified a slew of new targets , new therapeutic targets . That 's exciting . @(Footage-of-crowds-) @!TEICHNER : @(Voiceover) Especially for nearly 80 @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ attitude of baby boomers , that they 're not going to tolerate the kinds of discomforts that their parents or grandparents tolerated ? @!Dr-PALMER : Absolutely . It 's going to be a very large market , and there 's plenty of companies now that are realizing that and really trying to push forward and get some technology out there to help this group . @(Footage-of-people-) @!TEICHNER : @(Voiceover) According to today 's CBS News poll , one out of four Americans takes something for pain every day -- every day . Pain is big business , which may be the biggest reason for hope . qwq @ ( Visual-of-SUNDAY-M @(Footage-of-Trey-An) @!OSGOOD : @(Voiceover) Ahead , Trey Anastasio of the rock band Phish , changing course in midstream . @(Announcements) 
##54372 BANDALOOP Announcer : It 's SUNDAY MORNING on CBS , and here again is Charles Osgood . @!CHARLES-OSGOOD-ho : More often than not , if you want to see the dance troupe Bandaloop you 'll have to look at the unlikeliest of places , because as Rita Braver is about to show us , for Bandaloop all the world is a stage . @(Footage-of-Bandalo) @!RITA-BRAVER-report : @(Voiceover) No , this is not a special effect . These people really are dancing 2,500 feet over Yosemite National Park . They are members of Project Bandaloop , a troupe dedicated to expanding the boundaries of dance , to define principles of gravity , to challenging perceptions of space . Their founder and guiding spirit is 37-year-old Amelia Rudolph , a longtime modern dancer and choreographer , who took up mountain climbing about 12 years ago . @(Voiceover) When did it sort of go , bingo , I can put these two together for you ? @!Ms-AMELIA-RUDOLPH- : @(Voiceover) It evolved . It was n't -- I -- I do n't think it was a single moment . It was the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ it improved my climbing . And also then to be out in nature and be -- having the inspiration of a natural place . The two just started to grow towards each other and blend in to each other . @(Footage-of-dancers) @!BRAVER : @(Voiceover) Soon she was recruiting near her home in the San Francisco Bay Area . She went after dancers who could climb and climbers who could dance . The name Bandaloop came from a fictitious tribe in the Tom Robbins ' novel " Jitterbug Perfume , " a tribe that does a dance of longevity . @!Ms-RUDOLPH : I like the sound of it . I also like the idea that , you know , there 's a sort of magical elixir of activity that could somehow extend your vitality . And guess what ? There 's 40-year-old dancers in the company . @(Footage-of-dancers) @!BRAVER : @(Voiceover) Both Kimmy Ward and Heather Baer are 40 . Teen-agers need not apply . At 25 , Mark Stuber is the youngest member of the company . Why is the youngest person in this troupe a 25-year-old rather than a 17-year-old @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ lot of gravity to what we do emotionally , even though it 's this physical thing . @(Footage-of-dancers) @!Mr-STUBER : @(Voiceover) We 're really in it and -- and we 're lending it meaning as it 's happening . @(Footage-of-waterfa) @!BRAVER : @(Voiceover) Nowhere is that need for maturity more obvious than in Yosemite . It 's a three-mile hike up to the staging area , a jagged cliff with Yosemite Falls as a backdrop . The dancers travel with a team of riggers . They triple test every rope , every wire , every bolt . And then the dancers triple check everything , too . @(Voiceover) I think people are going to ask , ' Have they ever had a serious accident ? ' Have you ? @!Ms-RUDOLPH : We 've not had a serious accident . I do think about it and I think that anybody who thinks , ' Oh , what a great idea . I think I 'll do that with my dance company , ' should call me . And I -- and I have had people call me , ' Hey , I @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ do it , too , you know . ' The first thing I say is , ' Then are you ready for somebody to die ? ' And that just wakes them right up . Like they do n't even -- like that does n't even occur to them . Because I never forget that the -- that gra -- you know , gravity does n't take a lunch break . @(Footage-of-perform) @!BRAVER : @(Voiceover) In addition to dancing off mountaintops , Bandaloop also tests gravity by dangling from public buildings , like the Space Needle in Seattle . And , believe it or not , Rudolph insists that her delight in this comes not from the sense of risk , but from the knowledge that she is exploring the relationship of gravity to movement . @(Voiceover) You love it for the dance . @!Ms-RUDOLPH : @(Voiceover) I love it for the dance . I love it for the re-creation of gravity . I love it for the redefinition of what a dance floor is . I love it for the redefinition of architecture , for the redefinition or re -- @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @!BRAVER : @(Voiceover) It was Bandaloop 's different take on the world that brought the funding for this work in Yosemite . Wolf Trap , the national park for the performing arts , was launching a series of special projects to celebrate America 's other national parks . Wolf Trap president Terrence Jones fell in love when he watched a tape of Bandaloop in action . @!Mr-TERRENCE-JONES- : And I saw this incredible communion , if you will , between nature and sport and -- and the -- the physical environment . I thought , you know , ' This is it . This is exactly what we 're trying to do is to communicate through the language of the performing arts the special nature of these national parks . ' And so that 's why it worked so well . @(Footage-of-dancers) @!BRAVER : @(Voiceover) It took two years of planning and almost $ 1 million to line up the project , then a week of rehearsal on the mountaintop. @!Ms-RUDOLPH : @(Voiceover) And the dance floor was about 200 feet off -- down from the top of the cliff . @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ into place . @!BRAVER : @(Voiceover) Naturally , the question arises ... Are these people nuts ? But why -- what makes you want to do something like that , fly over Yosemite ? @(Footage-of-Ward) @!BRAVER : @(Voiceover) Dancer Kimmy Ward . @!Ms-KIMMY-WARD-@1Da : I think it 's the beauty of it . And there 's just this -- this freedom . @(Footage-of-perform) @!Ms-WARD : @(Voiceover) The -- the -- the expanding space that just keeps going and going and going . @!BRAVER : Is it as scary as it looks ? @!Ms-WARD : Do we make it look scary ? I ... Unidentified Dancer 1 : It 's scary . @!BRAVER : Yeah . It looks ... @!Ms-WARD : I think certainly psychologically there is that moment when -- for the first time when you 're settling into your rope when , ' OK , is it all going to work again this time ? ' But once you get in there and you settle in and you realize , yes , it 's OK , ' it 's OK . And then you get into the dance . And @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @(Voiceover) The dancers shed their climbing clothes and move on to what they call a dance floor . They float and fly and twirl and spin and travel into a mystical dimension . A couple of months later , accompanied by live musicians , they perform at the Wolf Trap Theatre in Virginia in tandem with the video they made at Yosemite . Theater performances are rare for Bandaloop , and as you might imagine , their 's is not the sort of work that brings in much money , so the troupe depends mostly on grants . This summer they 've got funding to perform a series of pieces as they cross the Sierra , Nevada , range . Is there anyplace where you all ha -- have in your minds , like , ' Gee , this is where I 'd like to dance ' ? Or , ' I 'd like to make a dance on this ... ' @!Mr-STUBER : Yeah . @!Ms-WARD : Oh , there 's lots of them . Unidentified Dancer 2 : Guggenheim Bilbao . That would be nice . Unidentified Dancer 3 @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ else ? @!Ms-WARD : Yeah . Unidentified Dancer 4 : I 'd like to dance on the Eiffel Tower . Unidentified Dancer 3 : Yeah . Unidentified Dancer 4 : And I 'd like to dance in New York somewhere , because we 've never been to New York . And I 'd love to dance in New York . @(Footage-of-Rudolph) @!BRAVER : @(Voiceover) But Amelia Rudolph has her sights set even higher . @!Ms-RUDOLPH : Well , the other night I looked through a telescope at the moon . And I was thinking , ' My gosh , I think some of those craters are big enough that there -- I think there 's a vertical surface on them . ' @(Footage-of-the-moo) @!Ms-RUDOLPH : @(Voiceover) What an incredible thing it would be to travel there and make art . @!OSGOOD : @(Voiceover) Ahead , a diverting visit to some contraptions in Connecticut . @(Announcements) 
##54374 FINE PRINT @!CHARLES-OSGOOD-ho : All this month we 've been dropping in on notable couples and this morning we meet a couple where both partners have worked hard to establish just one name . As Anthony Mason is about to show us , the explanation lies in the Fine Print . @(Photographs-of-Ann) @!ANTHONY-MASON-repo : @(Voiceover) They were 27 when they met ... @!Mrs-ANNETTE-MEYERS : We wanted the same things . You know , we wanted the life of artists , writers . @!MASON : @(Voiceover) ... 29 when they married . @!Mrs-MEYERS : Our honeymoon cruise was on the Staten Island Ferry . @!MASON : You just went back and forth ? @!Mrs-MEYERS : Yeah , back and forth . @(Photograph-of-the-) @!MASON : @(Voiceover) Annette Brafman was an aspiring writer ; Marty Meyers was a struggling actor . @!Mr-MARTY-MEYERS-@1 : This is me in " Zorba. " @(Early-footage-of-M) @!MASON : @(Voiceover) It was the early ' 60s . Marty , looking for any exposure , had even managed to get himself into the background of a Charles Kuralt story about Beat poets . @!Mr-MEYERS : See , there @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Look at that hair ! @!Mrs-MEYERS : That 's -- that 's the Marty I met , you know ? And he was very cute . He was really cute . @!MASON : @(Voiceover) Nearly 40 years later , Marty and Annette Meyers are still together . @!Mrs-MEYERS : And he has never bored me one moment in 39 years . He 's made me nuts , he 's made me crazy ; I 've wanted to kill him . @(Photograph-of-the-) @!MASON : @(Voiceover) And in this marriage , murder is a real option . You see , Marty and Annette are more than a couple ; they 're collaborators . @(Footage-of-book-co) @!MASON : @(Voiceover) Under the pen name Maan Meyers , they 've co-authored half a dozen murder mysteries . @!Mrs-MEYERS : It 's dangerous when we 're working together . He -- he 's a night person . I 'm a day person . @(Footage-of-the-Mey) @!MASON : @(Voiceover) Annette works in a carefully ordered corner of their New York living room . Marty writes in a cluttered den at the back of the apartment . @!Mrs-MEYERS : And it @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ just writes , you know , and I -- I edit in my head sort of as I go along ... @!MASON : Right . @!Mrs-MEYERS : ... so it 's -- it 's very difficult . @!Mr-MEYERS : And I work like an actor . The trick of being a good actor , if you 're creating something , is have no governors on you whatsoever . You go , ' Blah ! ' so you just put it all out there . Maybe 50 percent is garbage . So what ? You throw it away , or you rewrite it . @!Mrs-MEYERS : I throw it away . @!Mr-MEYERS : You 're encouraging her . We both -- each want to be the boss . @!MASON : That is tough . @!Mr-MEYERS : It is. @!Mrs-MEYERS : Yes . @!MASON : That 's a problem . @!Mr-MEYERS : Yep . @!Mrs-MEYERS : In a marriage , it 's very difficult . And when you 're writing together , oh , that 's when it leads to murder . @(Footage-of-Meyers-) @!MASON : @(Voiceover) As an actor , Marty Meyers could @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ bad guy Stan Pearlo on the soap opera " One Life to Live . " @(Photograph-of-Meye) @!MASON : @(Voiceover) Meyers ' film career began in the opening scene of the 1967 film " The Incident . " He played the pool hall owner opposite an unknown actor named Martin Sheen . @!Mr-MEYERS : Here 's Marty looking very young . It was Marty 's debut in the movies ... @!MASON : Right . @!Mr-MEYERS : ... mine , too , but he did a little better . @(Photograph-and-foo) @!MASON : @(Voiceover) Marty Meyers went on to have a series of very small parts in very big films . He played the wedding photographer in " Goodbye Columbus , " he was a face in the crowd in " The Producers , " and a man on the street in " Rosemary 's Baby . " @!Mr-MEYERS : This was a great job . First day I walked to my mark , second day I walked away from my mark , third day I said my line , fourth day I milled in the crowd , and the fifth day somebody said @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ . ' @(Footage-of-book-co) @!Mr-MEYERS : @(Voiceover) And when parts were hard to come by , in the ' 70s , Marty wrote a series of pulp private eye novels . @!Mrs-MEYERS : Worrisome stuff . @!Mr-MEYERS : I was just writing because I was frustrated . The way she baked in order to forget the fact that she could n't get published , I wrote in order to forget the fa -- fa -- fact I could n't get a part . @(Photograph-of-Mrs.) @!MASON : @(Voiceover) While Annette was waiting for her breakthrough as an author , she worked as the production assistant to Broadway legend Hal Prince . @!Mrs-MEYERS : I raised money for the shows . I got to know all the investors . Hal did not like that part . Hal wanted to be a director . @(Footage-of-Prince-) @!MASON : @(Voiceover) She helped raise money for " Cabaret , " " Company , " " Fiddler on the Roof " and " A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum . " But after 15 years , Annette felt it was time to leave the theater @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , ' Oh , darling , you 'll never be happy out there . ' And -- and I said , ' Why not ? ' And he said , ' Because you have an overdeveloped sense of injustice . ' And I do . And -- and he was so right . And that 's what makes a good mystery writer . @(Footage-of-skyscra) @!MASON : @(Voiceover) Annette then unexpectedly stumbled into a new career as a headhunter on Wall Street . Then at lunch one day , a client excused himself to go to a phone booth . @!Mrs-MEYERS : And I could see him huddled over the telephone . And I thought , ' What if I open the door and he slides out dead ? ' And that 's how it started . @(Footage-of-book-co) @!MASON : @(Voiceover) She called it " The Big Killing . " It would be Annette Meyers ' big break . @!Mrs-MEYERS : So that 's the way Smith and Wetzon were born . I used two women -- very successful headhunters -- who stumble over bodies on Wall Street . qwq @ ( @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ off , sitting at home one day , Annette suddenly had a vision . @!Mrs-MEYERS : And I looked up and I saw a figure standing there that I call a hologram. qwq @ ( Footage-of-statue ; @!MASON : @(Voiceover) The image of a Dutch lawman in 17th century New York would n't leave her alone . @!Mrs-MEYERS : And the Dutchman kept haunting me . And so I finally said to Marty with trepidation because we fight about everything , including how to stack the dishes in the dishwasher , and I said , ' Do you think you might want to write this with me ? ' @!MASON : When she said , ' I 've had this vision , this hologram , ' what did you think ? @!Mr-MEYERS : I thought she was nuts . @(Footage-of-the-Mey) @!MASON : @(Voiceover) But Marty eagerly agreed to collaborate ... @!Mrs-MEYERS : This was a cow path . All the streets in New Amsterdam were cow paths . @!MASON : @(Voiceover) ... and the couple began to research the early history of New York . @!Mrs-MEYERS : And this is called @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ what is now New York . @(Footage-of-map) @!Mr-MEYERS : The first thing I did , I wanted to see where we were , so I started with a map . I drew a map of the island as I saw it and as I read about it . And she says , ' What 's that for ? We do n't need a map . ' And subsequent to that , for all the books she negotiated with the -- through the agents and editors , ' We must have a map for every book . ' @!Mrs-MEYERS : Well , the -- the reader ... @!Mr-MEYERS : How quick she turned . @!Mrs-MEYERS : The readers like the maps . @!Mr-MEYERS : Oh , but you do n't need a -- you do n't need a map , right ? @!Mrs-MEYERS : Yeah . Right . Right . @!Mr-MEYERS : Yeah , sure . @!Mrs-MEYERS : Who di -- who drew the map in " The Dutchman ? " @!Mr-MEYERS : You did and beautifully , too . @!Mrs-MEYERS : That 's right . @!MASON : So -- so how @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ! @!MASON : ... let alone six ? @!Mr-MEYERS : We didn't. @!Mrs-MEYERS : It was ... @!Mr-MEYERS : We got through one ... @!Mrs-MEYERS : It was so ... @!Mr-MEYERS : ... and we said , ' Never again . ' @(Footage-of-the-Mey) @!MASON : @(Voiceover) Never say never again , of course . The Meyers have just finished their seventh historical mystery . Annette 's also started another series set in Greenwich Village in the ' 20s. @!Mrs-MEYERS : And that 's where ... @!MASON : Where the body was ? @!Mrs-MEYERS : ... where the body was . @(Footage-of-the-Mey) @!MASON : @(Voiceover) And at age 67 , Annette and Marty are still inseparable . @!Mrs-MEYERS : We do n't have kids , you know , so we 're each other 's best friend , sister , brother . @!Mr-MEYERS : And parent , in a way . @!Mrs-MEYERS : Parent -- you know , we take care of each other . @!MASON : @(Voiceover) A few years ago , they did have a scary moment when Marty suddenly took sick and doctors warned Annette she 'd better call her @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ my God , what am I going to do ? ' You know , through all that ... @!Mr-MEYERS : You thought -- you thought ... @!Mrs-MEYERS : And then I thought , ' How am I going to clean out that back room ? ' @(Footage-of-the-Mey) @!MASON : @(Voiceover) A heart bypass saved Marty and meant the Meyers were stuck with each other for a while yet . @!Mrs-MEYERS : And it 's worked out fine . @!MASON : Fine . That 's a glowing endorsement . @!Mr-MEYERS : Is n't she -- yeah . @!MASON : @(Voiceover) Annette and Marty Meyers -- a fine romance that 's endured for nearly 40 years . qwq @ ( Photograph-of-the- @(Visual-of-SUNDAY-M) @!OSGOOD : @(Voiceover) Next , writer Susan Cheever on the American way of divorce . @(Announcements) 