
##221750 DAN @!RATHER , host : Tonight a familiar face returns to 48 HOURS . Correspondent Bernard Goldberg is back with a new feature , 48 HOURS With -- 48 HOURS with newsmakers , personalities and others . To mark his return , Bernie decided to find himself a good attorney . @!BERNARD-GOLDBERG-r : Why do you suppose so many Americans despise defense lawyers ? @!Ms-LESLIE-ABRAMSON : Because they do n't understand our role . They think we approve of what our clients do , when , of course , we don't. @!GOLDBERG : But the reason they think you approve is because you 're trying to get someone off , even if he did do it . @!Ms-ABRAMSON : Well , I think if you -- if you substitute the word ' off ' with ' get a fair trial , ' that 's absolutely true . What would we think of a society where the defense lawyer is not on your side . Would do call such a system ? The Third Reich ? Do we call it Soviet Russia ? @(Footage-of-'Shut-u) @!Ms-ABRAMSON : Shut up . @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ abrasive and a lot worse . And like a lot of other defense lawyers , she could n't care less . @!Ms-ABRAMSON : And that 's as bad as it is . That 's the worst thing anybody can say he ever did to his parents before he was driven over the edge . @!GOLDBERG : ( Voiceover ) We first got to know her during the Menendez trial . @!Ms-ABRAMSON : This is a televised trial . And it 's televised nationally . @(Footage-of-Lyle-an) @!GOLDBERG : ( Voiceover ) The Menendez brothers , Lyle and Erik , at first denied and then admitted shotgunning their parents to death in their Beverly Hills home . @!Mr-LYLE-MENENDEZ-@ : I ran around and shot my mom . @!GOLDBERG : ( Voiceover ) It was self-defense , Abramson argues . @!Ms-ABRAMSON : The fact is they 're not really planning to kill their parents . They 're planning to defend themselves and hope it does n't come to that . @!GOLDBERG : ( Voiceover ) The boys , she said , had a deathly fear of their father who they claim sexually abused them @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @!Ms-ABRAMSON : It 's right there . It 's reprinted . His hand is in his child 's crotch. @!GOLDBERG : ( Voiceover ) When people say they do n't like defense lawyers , there 's a good chance Leslie Abramson is one of the defense lawyers they do n't like . @(Footage-of-Abramso) @!Ms-ABRAMSON : Now if you want to believe that he killed his parents so that he could get a stainless steel Rolex watch , I can not stop you . @(Footage-of-Abramso) @!GOLDBERG : ( Voiceover ) We talked at her law office in Los Angeles about her new book , " The Defense Is Ready " and about why so many Americans think more of used car dealers than they do of criminal defense lawyers . You know the joke about ' How do you know when is a lawyer lying ? You know , her lips are moving . ' That 's a joke . Nobody ... @!Ms-ABRAMSON : It 's not a joke . It reflects a negative attitude by society . Do they think we really want criminals running loose on the street , victimizing @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ good question . Here 's what I think : that all you care about is getting your client off whether he did it or not , whether he 's a bad person or not , whether he 's going to go out and do it again or not . You just want to get your client off . I think that 's what a lot of people think . @!Ms-ABRAMSON : It is our job to make sure the procedure is fair , the evidence is truthful , it 's real , it is n't fake , it is n't a lie , it is n't made up , it is n't planted , it is n't manufactured . All of those things have happened over the years and still happen every day . qwq @ ( Footage-of-Menende Unidentified Judge : The court finds that the jury is hopelessly deadlocked. @!GOLDBERG : ( Voiceover ) The first Menendez trial ended in a hung jury . @(Footage-of-CBS-new) @!HARRY-SMITH-@1Anch : Brothers Lyle and Erik Menendez have been ordered to spend the rest of their lives in prison . @(Footage-of-second-) @!GOLDBERG : ( Voiceover @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and sentenced to life in prison without parole . To Leslie Abramson , the conviction and the sentence were a travesty of justice . And if you listen to her today , she makes it sound like the whole judicial system is a travesty of justice , starting with the police . You wrote about the police , ' The general rule is cops lie . ' @!Ms-ABRAMSON : You know when I came to believe it ? When I became friends with ex-cops. @!GOLDBERG : What did the ex-cops tell you ? @!Ms-ABRAMSON : That they lie . They do n't teach it in the academy . They learn it , the little coplets , the rookies learn it the minute they get assigned to a station and get a partner and that 's when they 're told ' how we do things . ' They see it happening . They say nothing , they do nothing . The code of silence is absolutely true . @!GOLDBERG : What about the argument , ' Yeah , you 're talking about a few bad apples ' ? @!Ms-ABRAMSON : No . @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ got a few good apples . qwq @ ( Footage-of-Menende Judge : The court will call the case of People vs . Menendez. @!GOLDBERG : ( Voiceover ) You are not a fan of a lot of judges , either . Let me -- let me read to you ... @!Ms-ABRAMSON : Sadly , no. @!GOLDBERG : ... what you said in your book . You said that , ' An astonishing number of judges are remarkably stupid , totally crazy or deplorably lazy . ' @!Ms-ABRAMSON : I was talking about what I saw when I started practicing . I wanted to look up there and see a father or mother figure hand down the wisdom . And I found out I knew more than they did . @(Footage-of-Abramso) @!Ms-ABRAMSON : Here is the proof that he 's lying . @!GOLDBERG : ( Voiceover ) Abramson says judges have gotten better over the years . But prosecutors , she says , have gotten worst . @!Ms-ABRAMSON : The prosecution 's only interest is not in justice , is not in guilt or innocence . It 's in getting a conviction @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Ab-so-lute-ly . Few and far between are the prosecutors who really are concerned about whether the person they 're prosecuting is guilty or innocent . You hear about it occa ... @!GOLDBERG : Leslie . @!Ms-ABRAMSON : And I -- I 've been in this business 27 years -- 27 years . I have won a string of cases of innocent clients , clearly innocent clients ; prosecution push -- pushes harder . @!GOLDBERG : You 're sort of suggesting that the defense lawyers are the noble ones in this whole process . @!Ms-ABRAMSON : Absolutely . @!GOLDBERG : Re ... @!Ms-ABRAMSON : You laugh . Now what right do you have to laugh ? @!GOLDBERG : I -- I -- I 'm only laughing -- I -- I 'm ... @!Ms-ABRAMSON : You 're -- you know , you 're -- you 're -- because what you are doing is -- your laughter is precisely why the public believes the opposite . @!GOLDBERG : Let -- let me -- let me tell -- no , I 'm sort of reflecting the public 's view , not creating it . @!Ms-ABRAMSON @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ have no basis to know one way or the other until you tell them about it . @(Footage-of-police-) @!GOLDBERG : ( Voiceover ) And to Leslie Abramson , one of the reasons cops lie and prosecutors only care about winning is because we Americans have become so sick of the bad guys , that we do n't care if the good guys cheat . To this liberal defense lawyer , the real problem is a right-wing America . @!Ms-ABRAMSON : Is n't the real story here that America has drifted so far to the right , that law and order -- those philosophies of law and order , ' convict at any cost ' ... @(Footage-of-prisons) @!Ms-ABRAMSON : ( Voiceover ) ... ' lock them and sock them , ' ' Who cares if they 're innocent ? ' ' We do n't want any guilty st ' -- is n't that what 's really going on ? Is n't that where America really is , to its disgrace ? @!GOLDBERG : Is that what you think ? @!Ms-ABRAMSON : That 's what I think . @!GOLDBERG : ( Voiceover ) @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ needs to get away from being a full-time defense lawyer ... @(Footage-of-light-g) @!GOLDBERG : ( Voiceover ) ... at least for a while ... @!Ms-ABRAMSON : I 'd do anything not to look like Howard Stern . @!GOLDBERG : ... which is why she 's trying out for a job as a radio talk-show host . @!Ms-ABRAMSON : We should do some testing , see if I 'm too close . @!GOLDBERG : She is also looking for work on TV . The courtroom celebrity , it seems , would like to become a media celebrity , too . @!Ms-ABRAMSON : But wait , let me say something about that . You know , I 'm a lawyer ... @(Footage-of-Abramso) @!GOLDBERG : ( Voiceover ) But whether it 's behind the microphone or in the courtroom , Leslie Abramson has a message which may give you second thoughts about defense lawyers . Problem is , they may be exactly the same as your first thoughts . Our system says you will defend this man accused of murder , and even if he did it , you will give him a zealous @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ he did it . @!Ms-ABRAMSON : Exactly . We do this weird thing . @!GOLDBERG : Exactly . @!Ms-ABRAMSON : We stand up and advocate for people who we know are bad . @!GOLDBERG : Exactly . @!Ms-ABRAMSON : That is our function , and without it , the good would get convicted . @(Montage-of-footage) @!RATHER : Coming up , the latest on Elizabeth Taylor 's condition since the evening news . @(Announcements) 
##221751 ( Footage of Nathan Smith removing joint from container ) @!NATHAN : Is the coast clear ? @!HAROLD-DOW-reporti : @(Voiceover) Nathan Smith is still at it . @!NATHAN : One of you guys have a light ? @!DOW : @(Voiceover) He 's still breaking the rules at his drug treatment program . Have you had a cigarette this morning ? @!NATHAN : Yeah . @!DOW : You -- honestly , you did ? @!NATHAN : Yeah , I ha -- I smoked the last cigarette in the cottage this morning . @!DOW : You did ? @!NATHAN : Yeah . @(Footage-of-step-by) @!NATHAN : @(Voiceover) I know that I still got an addict inside me that tells me that I want to go out and use again , so ... @!DOW : There 's an addict inside of you ? @!NATHAN : Yeah . Well , there probably always will be . @!Mr-TODD-NICHOLSON : Nate 's one of the lucky few kids who 's figured it out , who has made the connection between using and the pain that 's in his life . @(Footage-of-Karyl-S) @!Ms-KARYL-SMITH : This is @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ always kissing and loving everyone . @!DOW : @(Voiceover) Karyl Smith is remembering the days before her son abused marijuana . Ms. @!SMITH : Always loving and always happy . @!DOW : @(Voiceover) But their happiness was cut short . You were disabled in an automobile accident . Ms. @!SMITH : Yes , I was . @!DOW : How old was Nathan at the time ? Ms. @!SMITH : It was a week after his sixth birthday . @(Vintage-photo-of-K) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) Karyl suffered a serious head injury that left her barely able to care for her son for more than 10 years . Ms. @!SMITH : But I do n't remember anything for the first year or for many years after that , but ... @(Vintage-photo-of-N) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) Her marriage fell apart . Nathan was virtually on his own . Ms. @!SMITH : It 's still very hard for him to forgive me , even though he understands intellectually that I could n't be there for him , even though he was with me physically and I was with him physically . @!DOW : @(Voiceover) Ironically , the accident @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ How does that fact make you view your son 's addiction ? Ms. @!SMITH : It 's -- mostly it 's a very , very , very deep sadness . @!NATHAN : I love my mom . I always have and I always will , but , you know , my mom -- my family problems are just probably the reason why I started doing drugs in the first place , to get away from that , so ... @(Footage-of-Nathan-) @!NATHAN : So we 're going to graduate on the same day , then ? @!DOW : @(Voiceover) Nathan is due to leave here in two weeks . @(Footage-of-Nathan-) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) And home is the last place he wants to go . He is hoping to continue his treatment at a nearby halfway house . @!NATHAN : I do n't think I 'm coming home soon . Ms. @!SMITH : Do n't you think we should talk about this ? I have n't been with you since you were six years old . @!NATHAN : I do n't know if I 'm ready for that yet . I 've still @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ is home . Ms. @!SMITH : What is the problem with being home ? Is it so horrible at home ? @!NATHAN : I -- I -- no , I 'm not going to go -- no . I keep -- I keep on saying this . Why do I even let you -- you ke -- ca -- carry this ( censor ) on . Ms. @!SMITH : You seem awfully hostile . @!NATHAN : I am very ho -- awf -- awfully hostile . Ms. @!SMITH : But you 're never this hostile or angry ... @!NATHAN : I am always this hostile and that 's my problem . Ms. @!SMITH : You have n't been toward me since you 've been here . @(Footage-of-Nathan-) @!NATHAN : @(Voiceover) Arguing is not right . Ms. @!SMITH : @(Voiceover) I was n't arguing with you , Nathan . I was giving you a different perspective . @!NATHAN : @(Voiceover) A different perspective ? I 've got just about 24 hours each ( censor ) day to think about a different perspective that you do not have because I am stuck here @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ hurting ? @!NATHAN : And I 've gotten ( censored ) ... Ms. @!SMITH : You do n't think that I am not home hurting because you are here 24 hours a day with your perspective ? @(Footage-of-counsel) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) One of Nathan 's counselors puts an end to the argument . Unidentified Man : Nathan is trying to work through these family issues sober . qwq @ ( Footage-of-Smith-f Man : @(Voiceover) The situation may look chaotic , but it 's actually therapeutic . @(Footage-of-Nathan-) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) It 's two weeks later and Nathan is still blowing off some steam . @!NATHAN : You guys are going to go down . @!DOW : @(Voiceover) Tonight he will move to the halfway house , a move his mother now says she understands . qwq @ ( Footage-of-Karyl-s Ms. @!SMITH : @(Voiceover) I wanted him home , yes . I still want him home , but I want him to be healthy and I want him to be whole because he never ever will be until he 's healthy , completely healthy . @!SMITH : Thanks for everything . @!Mr-NICHOLSON @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to do , Nate . @!SMITH : All right . @!DOW : @(Voiceover) And when it 's time for Nathan to leave ... @(Footage-of-Nathan-) @!NATHAN : Thanks for coming , Mom . Ms. @!SMITH : You 're welcome . @!DOW : @(Voiceover) ... Karyl is there . Ms. @!SMITH : I 'm so proud of you . @!DOW : Now here 's a question , is Nathan going to make it ? @!NATHAN : Nathan is , one day at a time . @(Footage-of-Nathan-) @!NATHAN : I 'll close the door . @!DOW : @(Voiceover) Just ahead ... @(Footage-of-Nathan-) @!NATHAN : So I tried my ( censor ) best . So I started doing drugs to be accepted by somebody , to take away the pain ! @!DOW : @(Voiceover) ... Nathan faces his toughest challenge . @(Footage-of-Leslie-) @!DAN-RATHER-host : @(Voiceover) And also ahead , she has the right to remain silent ... @!Ms-LESLIE-ABRAMSON : Shut up . @!RATHER : @(Voiceover) ... but won't. @!BERNARD-GOLDBERG-r : Really ? @!Ms-ABRAMSON : Absolutely . @!RATHER : @(Voiceover) Attorney Leslie Abramson in her own defense . @(Announcements) @(Footage-of-Nathan-) @!NATHAN : I got my coffee @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ I -- I 'm enjoying life here , man . I 'm enjoying life . @!DOW : @(Voiceover) Nathan Smith is starting to feel at home at the halfway house . @(Footage-of-Nathan-) @!NATHAN : @(Voiceover) I 'm doing this for the long run , you know . @!DOW : @(Voiceover) So far ... @!NATHAN : @(Voiceover) Doing this to make my head better . @!DOW : @(Voiceover) ... so good . qwq @ ( Footage-of-Nathan- Unidentified Teen-ager : There were some blond chicks , some babes . So do you like this place so far ? @!NATHAN : Yeah . It 's cool . @!Mr-BILL-WILFORD : In most cases , they are very happy the first two weeks because they get more freedom to do different things . @(Footage-of-Bill-en) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) Bill Wilford is Nathan 's counselor here at Safeco. @!Mr-WILFORD : Hey , Nate . Good morning . @(Voiceover) But after a couple of weeks , they begin to settle in. @(Footage-of-Nathan-) @!Mr-WILFORD : @(Voiceover) Some of their old behaviors kind of come back . @!NATHAN : What movie are we going to ? Unidentified Woman : I do @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ n't set in with him . @(Footage-of-Nathan-) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) But it does . Two weeks later , Nathan breaks the house rules one time too many and gets suspended . @(Footage-of-Nathan-) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) He 's now at the place he 's most afraid of : home . @(Footage-of-Nathan-) @!NATHAN : @(Voiceover) My family problems are probably the reason why I started doing drugs in the first place , to get away from that . @!ANN : I just hope there 's no relapse . It would be too much to deal with . @!DAVE : He 's cool . He 'll make it . @!NATHAN : I will . I got to make it . @!DOW : @(Voiceover) Tomorrow , counselors will decide if Nathan can return to the halfway house for treatment . @!DAVE : I 'm proud of you , Nate . @!ANN : Me , too . @!DOW : @(Voiceover) Tonight , Nathan has friends , Dave and Ann , for support . qwq @ ( Footage-of-Nathan , @!NATHAN : Two only friends in the whole wide world . @!DOW : @(Voiceover) Friends who have known @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ on something . @!DOW : @(Voiceover) ... better than his own mother . Ms. @!SMITH : What do you know that I do n't know as a parent ? @!DAVE : I mean , he 'd tell me , ' Guys , you know my life is shit right now . ' And he 'd say , ' You know , right now I need this . I have to do this . I do it every day . ' @!ANN : Growing up , you never seem to be happy , anything , because his parents were n't there for him . Ms. @!SMITH : That was hard on him ? @!NATHAN : How come you did n't know for so long ? Ms. @!SMITH : Why did n't you come to me ever . Why ? As a parent , why ? @!ANN : He would n't go to anyone with it . He would just cover it up . ' It 's not there . I 'm doing my thing . I 'm all right . ' @(Footage-of-Nathan-) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) It 's two hours before Nathan 's @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ . I learned things that scared me to death . @!DOW : Now that you know all this , how will you help him when he comes home ? Will -- how will you make it so he can talk to you ? Ms. @!SMITH : The best that we 've come up with so far is to back off and to listen . qwq @ ( Footage-of-Karyl-a Ms. @!SMITH : @(Voiceover) And to learn when they 're upset , give them room . @(Footage-of-Karyl-a) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) It 's only a 40-minute drive to the hearing . Ms. @!SMITH : I worry about you because I love you and I care about you . @!DOW : @(Voiceover) But the car seems too small to hold Nathan ... Ms. @!SMITH : Watch the speed limit , kiddo. @!DOW : @(Voiceover) ... his mother and their past . Ms. @!SMITH : Why do you drive fast and take chances now when you know that perhaps that you could wipe someone else out ? Look what it did to you ? @!NATHAN : OK . We got hit and our lives got screwed @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ had nobody . I did n't know who I was staying with . I do n't know how I ate . I do n't know who hell was taking care of me . Ms. @!SMITH : Blaming me . Blaming me. @!NATHAN : You 're right . You do n't want to hear anything ! Ms. @!SMITH : You are blaming me. @!NATHAN : I try my ( censor ) best . So I start doing drugs to be accepted by somebody , take away the pain . Ms. @!SMITH : I did not know . @!NATHAN : ( Mimicking Karyl ) ' I did not know . I am brainless . ' What the ( censor ) off . Thanks for hitting me. @!DOW : @(Voiceover) As they arrive at the hearing ... @!NATHAN : Why are you in a hurry ? Why ( censor ) ... @!DOW : @(Voiceover) ... Karyl and Nathan have to regroup. @(Footage-of-Nathan-) @!NATHAN : I do n't even know anymore . All I know is I got to just do this . @(Footage-of-Nathan-) @!Mr-JOHN-HORNGREN-@# This is a sensitive situation that we are going into @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in treatment or not . @(Footage-of-inside-) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) Behind a closed door , the hearing lasts and hour and a half . Finally Nathan emerges . How 'd it go , Nathan ? @!NATHAN : I 'm staying . @!DOW : You 're staying ? @!NATHAN : Yeah . I might as well . @!DOW : You do n't sound too happy . Was it a tough meeting ? @!NATHAN : Yeah . Yeah , it was a really tough meeting . @!DOW : He 's back in the program . Is n't that what you wanted ? Ms. @!SMITH : Like I said , it does n't matter if he 's drug-free . It 's the reason he went on drugs is because he -- he would n't forgive me because I was n't there for him . @!DOW : So what 's your next move now ? @!NATHAN : I 'm going to wait for a van to go to Safeco. @!DOW : And when you go there , are you going to abide by the rules ? @!NATHAN : Yeah . @!DOW : Are you going to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ n't know . I have a terrible feeling of just helplessness . I do n't understand . @!DOW : Come here for a second , man . I mean , your mom is hurting , man . Help her out a little bit . @(Footage-of-Dow-wit) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) I asked Nathan to have one last word with his mother before they left . @(Footage-of-Karyl-a) @!NATHAN : @(Voiceover) I -- I want me and my mom to be a family again , you know , but that takes time . It does n't happen overnight , you know . @!DOW : @(Voiceover) For a young man like Nathan , there are no happy endings , just another chance , another chance to start over . @!NATHAN : @(Voiceover) I think my mom knows that I care for her and that I love her . @!RATHER : Tonight , Nathan is back home with his mother , but only because he was kicked out of the halfway house ; this time for good . As for Sarabeth ... @(Footage-of-Sarabet) @!RATHER : @(Voiceover) ... she failed yet another drug test and just yesterday ... @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to the detention center . @(Footage-of-Simon-e) @!RATHER : @(Voiceover) And Simon ? Well , he 's still smoking pot now and again , and so far still making straight A's. @(Footage-of-Leslie-) @!Ms-ABRAMSON : Here is the proof that he 's lying . @!RATHER : @(Voiceover) Get ready for a cross examination . @!GOLDBERG : Whether he did it or not , whether he 's a bad person or not , you just want to get your client off . I think that 's what a lot people think . @!RATHER : @(Voiceover) Bernard Goldberg and attorney Leslie Abramson ... @!Ms-ABRAMSON : It is our job to make sure the procedure is fair . @!RATHER : @(Voiceover) ... just ahead . @(Announcements) 
##221753 SARABETH @(Graphic-on-screen) Parents and Pot @!DAN-RATHER-host : Between now and the turn of the century , CBS News is tracking the fate and fortune of The Class of 2000 , high schoolers coming of age in the next millennium . Marijuana is certain to figure into that fate . By one estimate , more than four million teens have tried marijuana and one out of five kids who do smoke it do so every day , which brings us to the story of Sarabeth. @(Footage-of-Sarabet) @!Ms-SARABETH-DAVIS- : My stomach 's all jumbled up . Here goes . @!HAROLD-DOW-reporti : @(Voiceover) For 18-year-old Sarabeth Davis ... @!Ms-DAVIS : Oh , this is awful , Mom . I hate this . @!DOW : @(Voiceover) ... today is judgment day . qwq @ ( Footage-of-court-b @(Graphic-on-screen) 10:30AM Tampa , Florida @!Ms-DAVIS : Thinking about court makes me just want to cry . @!DOW : Are you scared ? @!Ms-DAVIS : Mm-hmm . @(Footage-of-man-ass) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) And she should be . Unidentified Man 1 : Go get them . @!DOW : @(Voiceover) Her future rests in the hands of this man @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ : @(Voiceover) ... Hillsborough county chief judge , F. Dennis Alvarez . Judge F. DENNIS ALVAREZ ( Circuit Court ) : She let me down . @(Voiceover) But inside , you know , I was -- felt disappointed . @(Footage-of-Sarabet) @!Ms-DAVIS : @(Voiceover) I just hope that he gives me another chance . @!DOW : @(Voiceover) A chance to put the past behind her . Sara , when did you start smoking marijuana ? @!Ms-DAVIS : The first time was when I was in seventh grade . I think the drug grabbed ahold of me without me even noticing . @(To-dog) Want to go for a walk ? Aww . @(Footage-of-Sarabet) @!Ms-DAVIS : I was making it a lifestyle , a routine to be high all the time and ... @!DOW : @(Voiceover) But it was n't always that way . @(Footage-of-Sarabet) @!Ms-DAVIS : We were just the best of friends , the whole squad was just the best of friends . We had like ... @!DOW : @(Voiceover) She was a cheerleader. @!Ms-DAVIS : @(Voiceover) The more I did it , the more I loved it . That was my @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ She was a model ... @!Ms-DAVIS : And then this was fun because we were like on location , and I took modeling seriously . @!DOW : @(Voiceover) ... and a model student ... @!Ms-DAVIS : I continued to be an A student for a -- a long period of time . @!DOW : @(Voiceover) ... until her future went up in smoke . @!Ms-DAVIS : By the time of my -- the summer of 10th grade , I was smoking every day , every single day -- twice , three times a day . @(Footage-of-Sarabet) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) By 11th grade she was out of school ... @!Ms-DAVIS : I was kind of somewhat asked to leave . @!DOW : @(Voiceover) ... and out of luck . @!Mrs-SHIRLEY-DAVIS- : And then after the Christmas holiday , she was arrested for buying marijuana . @(Footage-of-Sarabet) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) For Shirley and Mike Davis , Sarabeth 's parents ... @!Mr-MIKE-DAVIS-@1Sa : Yeah , it -- she denied it even at that time . So it ... @!DOW : @(Voiceover) ... 1996 was a very unhappy year . @!Mrs-DAVIS : I -- I @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the hardest things I think I 've ever had to face as a parent . @!Ms-DAVIS : And when they put the handcuffs on , I was like -- whew -- I did n't , you know , nothing was worse than that . @!Mr-DAVIS : It was obvious then that we -- that she had a problem and that we all -- we as a family had a problem . Judge ALVAREZ : They were very , very concerned and they kind of like placed her in the court 's hands and say , ' You know , help us . We 're losing our daughter . ' @(Footage-of-Alvarez) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) This is where they found help ... Judge ALVAREZ : And I hope we 've gotten to them at age 15. @!DOW : @(Voiceover) ... juvenile drug court in Tampa . qwq @ ( Footage-of-Sarabet Judge ALVAREZ : @(Voiceover) Yeah , we have a -- a drug problem in Tampa . @!DOW : @(Voiceover) One of four such places in the country ... Judge ALVAREZ : ... alcohol and marijuana and paraphernalia . @(Footage-of-Alvarez) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) ... @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @(To-teen) All right . Good luck . It 's a program that we implemented back in February of -- of ' 96 ... @(In-court) Donald Robert Echelbarger. qwq @ ( Footage-of-teen-in Judge ALVAREZ : @(Voiceover) ... to deal with drug problems by first-time juvenile offenders . @(To-teen) Good morning . And it 's a program where they get rehab for their drug problem . @(To-teen) What got you started ? Unidentified Teen : My dad . Judge ALVAREZ : Your dad ? @(Footage-of-Alvarez) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) Judge Alvarez is trying to keep young people out of the criminal justice system . Judge ALVAREZ : Other people who get you in trouble are not friends . @!DOW : @(Voiceover) ... and give them a second chance to go straight . Judge ALVAREZ : The big thing here , if they complete the program , their record 's clean . We 're just not here to get you clean . @(Voiceover) That 's the carrot we offer these kids . @!Ms-DAVIS : I looked at my parents and said , ' I 'm not doing it . I 'm not . ' Judge @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ going to be an easy task to deal with her . @!DOW : What 's the toughest part of this program ? @!Ms-DAVIS : Staying clean . Judge ALVAREZ : We had a problem with Sarabeth real early in the program . She did real good , then she fell off the wagon . I put her in W.T. Edwards for a while . @(Footage-of-Hillsbo) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) W.T. Edwards is a juvenile detention center , punishment for those who break the drug court rules . Judge ALVAREZ : @(Voiceover) Fear is very important . @(To-teen) You heard of W.T. Edwards ? @(Voiceover) And I think that 's one thing I have in this court . @(To-teen) You 've heard about W.T. Edwards ? Have you been there ? That 's the leverage I have -- is fear . @!Ms-DAVIS : That 's what Judge Alvarez was trying to do , was to make me see that he was serious , you know ? @(Footage-of-Sarabet) @!Ms-DAVIS : @(Voiceover) So they put me in shackles and handcuffs and they -- they took me to W.T. I stayed there for four days . @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @!Ms-DAVIS : @(Voiceover) It -- it 's just -- it 's gross . That 's all I can say . It 's nasty . It 's filthy , no blankets , no pillows . I mean , it 's gross . Like this is not a cool place to be . I do n't ever want to end up here again . Judge ALVAREZ : And these kids have got to want to come in . Their parents have to want them to come in . Unidentified Woman : This is the last hope that I have . Judge ALVAREZ : This is what we 're here for . You 're as important to the program as I am. qwq @ ( Footage-of-Alvarez Judge ALVAREZ : @(Voiceover) If we do n't work together , the system -- the program can not work . @!DOW : @(Voiceover) To make the program work , ... Woman : That 's when he missed his curfew the other night ... @!DOW : @(Voiceover) Judge Alvarez demands that youngsters attend counseling and a whole lot more . Woman : ... but he has completed detox . @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ hang around people that smoke . You do n't smoke . You either work or you go to school . Judge ALVAREZ : You get yourself a job , enroll for your GED program . @!Ms-DAVIS : Once a week I take a drug test and often -- sometimes they 'll also call for random , just all -- out of the blue . Just call ... @(Footage-of-Sarabet) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) Last month one of the those random tests came back positive . @!Ms-DAVIS : I really do n't know why I did it . I just -- I was around some old friends . I th -- you know , I thought -- I think at the time I thought , ' Hey , I can get away with this . ' @(Footage-of-Alvarez) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) The results were given to the judge who gave Sarabeth two weeks to get clean or head back to jail . Judge ALVAREZ : And I 'm concerned because I -- I was looking at her wh -- at one of my -- basically , one of the prized clients that we had in @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ 24 hours before her meeting with Judge Alvarez ... @!Ms-DAVIS : This is just where we go when it 's random . @!DOW : @(Voiceover) ... Sarabeth has to pass what could be the most important test of her life . @(Footage-of-Sarabet) @!Ms-DAVIS : @(Voiceover) I just hope that -- that my body has cleansed myself and this test comes up negative ... @!Ms-RENATA-SUDS : My name is Renata Suds ... @!Ms-DAVIS : OK. @!Ms-SUDS : ... and I 'll be conducting your drug test today . @(Footage-of-Sarabet) @!Ms-DAVIS : @(Voiceover) ... so that I have something to show the judge tomorrow . Judge ALVAREZ : If I find based on the evidence that she violated the conditions and she had a positive urine , she can go to W.T. Edwards for 15 days . @!Ms-SUDS : I 'm going to go across the street and do your drug test . @!Ms-DAVIS : OK . This is going to be the longest 10 minutes of my life . @(Footage-of-drug-te) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) The clock is ticking . Sarabeth 's test results , when we come back . @(Footage-of-ice-cre) @!RATHER : @(Voiceover) @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ... Unidentified Police Officer : Police , open up . @!RATHER : @(Voiceover) ... for police and parents . @!SUSAN-SPENCER : How many kids do you have ? Unidentified Man 3 : I have four kids . @!SPENCER : @(Voiceover) And you find out that you 're living across the street from this . Man 3 : Yes . Terrible . @(Footage-of-child-s) @!RATHER : @(Voiceover) And ... @(Footage-of-Nathan-) @!NATHAN-@117-year-o : I 've got just about 24 hours to think about a different perspective that you do not have . @!RATHER : @(Voiceover) ... Nathan 's house divided . @!Ms-KARYL-SMITH-@1N : You do n't think that I am not home hurting because you are here 24 hours a day with your perspective ? @(Announcements) 
##221754 WHEN WE WERE KINGS @!DAN-RATHER-host : Now you 're about to meet a man who had good reason to quit years ago . Fortunately for all of us , he did n't . Harold Dow has the story complete with a Muhammad Ali you 've never seen before . @(Footage-of-dark-ha) @!Mr-LEON-GAST : I really can see the light at the end of the tunnel . @(Footage-of-Gast-an) @!Mr-GAST : There 's a time problem . @(Footage-of-man-pla) @!Mr-GAST : I 'm going to have to call up California . @(Footage-of-man-pla) @!Mr-GAST : Can he deliver it on Friday ? @(Footage-of-Gast-en) @!Mr-GAST : What floor are we on ? @(Footage-of-Gast-in) @!Mr-GAST : Wait . Where we going ? We 're going this way . Unidentified Man 1 : We 're going down . @(Footage-of-Gast-sp) @!Mr-GAST : I 'm sorry . I forgot your name . @!HAROLD-DOW-reporti : @(Voiceover) You 'll just have to excuse Leon Gast. @(Footage-of-Gast-wa) @!Mr-GAST : Are you going to meet us downtown ? @!DOW : @(Voiceover) He 's racing to meet a deadline . @(Footage-of-Gast-ru) @!Mr-GAST : Have you timed this ? Unidentified Man 2 : No. @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ on his latest film . @!Mr-GAST : For me , it 's a dream come true . @(Footage-of-Gast's-) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) A film that took two months to shoot ... qwq @ ( Footage-of-Gast-at Unidentified Man 3 : Do you want to push that now ? @!Mr-GAST : Yeah . @(Footage-of-Gast's-) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) ... and 23 years to complete . @(Vintage-photo-of-G) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) You were 37 years old when you started shooting this . And -- and now you 're 60 years old and -- and this -- this movie 's just now coming out . @!Mr-GAST : Well , things take time . qwq @ ( Graphic-of- " When-W @!DOW : @(Voiceover) " When We Were Kings " is a film about the 1974 heavyweight championship fight between Muhammad Ali and George Foreman . @(Film-footage-of-Al) @!Mr-ALI : @(Voiceover) I want the man . We 're going to get it on because we do n't get along . qwq @ ( Film-footage-of-Al Unidentified Announcer 1 : Ali with a right hand leading in ... @!DOW : @(Voiceover) It took place in Zaire ... @(Film-footage-of-Za) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) ... the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ rumble in the jungle . @(Film-footage-of-Al) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) But the famed rumble in the jungle was not the original focus of Leon 's film . @!Mr-ALI : ( Chanting ) Ali ( foreign language spoken ) ! @!Mr-GAST : @(Voiceover) Ali and Foreman were going to be secondary characters . @!DOW : @(Voiceover) The primary focus of the film ... @(Film-footage-of-fe) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) ... a three-day music festival leading up to the fight . @(Film-footage-of-pe) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) The initial money to stage and shoot the concert was put up by another African country , Liberia . @(Film-footage-of-mu) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) The rest of the money needed to edit and complete the film was supposed to come from gate receipts of the three-day concert . @!Mr-GAST : Everything that could possibly go wrong has gone wrong . @(Film-footage-of-Za) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) For openers , no one in Zaire could afford to buy tickets . @(Film-footage-of-Pr) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) So President Mobutu declared it a free concert . @!Mr-GAST : He had 88,000 people in the stands . @!DOW : But no money . @!Mr-GAST : But no money . @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ how you stay in business , Leon . @!Mr-GAST : Right . So I came back to New York and I had all this film . @(Footage-of-film-ca) @!Mr-GAST : @(Voiceover) And no money . So it sat for a while . @!DOW : @(Voiceover) In fact ... @(Footage-of-storage) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) ... the unedited film sat in storage for years while Leon tried to raise money for the project . @(Footage-of-Gast-at) @!Mr-GAST : Maybe I crossed a witch doctor while I was over there and he put some kind of hex on me. @(Film-footage-of-fe) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) And it gets worse , much worse . @!Mr-GAST : Unfortunately , there was a coup . @(Footage-of-weapons) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) Yes , a coup . The Liberian backers of the film were overthrown . Unidentified Man 4 : Squad , fire ! @(Footage-of-Gast-lo) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) And this was your money guy ? @!Mr-GAST : @(Voiceover) Yes . It was then that I knew for certain that we would n't be getting any more money from the Liberians. @(Footage-of-Gast-le) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) Did you ever think you 'd complete this documentary ? @!Mr-GAST @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ special . @!DOW : You never gave up hope ? @!Mr-GAST : I never gave up hope . @(Footage-of-Gast-fa) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) Fast forward to the early 1980s. @(Footage-of-Gast) @!Mr-GAST : @(Voiceover) Around that time , video was just starting to happen . And I 'd take all of my great Ali stuff and James and the dancers and I 'd say , ' Let me play around with " Funky Good Time . " ' @(Film-footage-of-Al) @!Mr-GAST : @(Voiceover) And I 'd start moving shots around and just playing with it . @(Film-footage-of-mu) @!Mr-GAST : @(Voiceover) Friends of mine would say , ' Leon 's still working on it . It 's how many years ago ? Was it 10 years ago ? ' then , ' 15 years ago ? ' then , ' 20 years ago ? ' @(Footage-of-Taylor-) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) Enter Taylor Hackford ... @!Mr-TAYLOR-HACKFORD : The driver will get up and ... @!DOW : @(Voiceover) ... Hollywood director and big Muhammad Ali fan . @!Mr-HACKFORD : And I think of him as one of the great Americans . @!DOW : @(Voiceover) He witnessed the rumble @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ 's one of the seminal kind of athletic events of this century . @(Film-footage-of-Al) @!Mr-HACKFORD : @(Voiceover) Because it had theater . Unidentified Announcer 1 : And Ali is getting the people to chant , ' Ali ( foreign language spoken ) . ' That means , ' Ali , kill him . ' @(Film-footage-of-bl) @!Mr-HACKFORD : @(Voiceover) It was right in the ' 70s , right at the peak of the black power movement . @(Film-footage-of-Al) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) And Ali seized the moment to speak out about more than just boxing . @!Mr-ALI : We have a lot of problems that we have to solve among ourselves , prostitution problems . Live a clean life . Stay off of dope . @!Mr-HACKFORD : This man had an influence on black America , on white America , on -- on America in general . @(Footage-of-Gast-at) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) Hackford felt that Leon 's film was missing something . @!Mr-HACKFORD : You want voices -- that it can explain the historical context of ... @(Footage-of-Hackfor) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) So Hackford conducted interviews with Spike Lee ... @!Mr-SPIKE-LEE-@1Fil : And this beautiful @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and others , including writers Norman Mailer ... @!Mr-NORMAN-MAILER : ' I will strike him with my jab . ' Boom ! Boom ! Boom ! @!DOW : @(Voiceover) ... and George Plimpton. @!Mr-GEORGE-PLIMPTON : What a fighter he was . What a man . @(Vintage-footage-of) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) They both covered the fight 23 years ago . @!Mr-GAST : @(Voiceover) The interviews were perfect . Exactly what we needed . And it made the film . qwq @ ( Footage-of-Gast ; -G @!DOW : @(Voiceover) And Leon is not the only one who feels that way . A major Hollywood company saw the new version and bought the film . @!Mr-GAST : I 'm probably the happiest man in the world . @(Footage-of-Gast-ho) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) Finally , after 23 years , " When We Were Kings " will open in theaters across the country . @(Footage-of-Gast-in) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) That is , if Leon ever finishes mixing the title song . @(Footage-of-Gast-an) @!Mr-GAST : @(Voiceover) Everybody , I guess , thinks about , ' What am I going to do with my life ? ' You know , ' @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , I want to do something that I can be proud of , and with the grace of God , we 've got our love poem to Muhammad Ali . @(Film-footage-of-Al) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) Coming up , Muhammad Ali ... @!Mr-ALI : ... ( Unintelligible ) . @(Film-footage-of-Ge) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) ... and George Foreman , then ... @(Footage-of-Foreman) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) ... and now . @!Mr-GEORGE-FOREMAN : I ran into a champion . This man was more than your ordinary boxer . qwq @ ( Film-footage-of-Al @(Announcements) @(Footage-of-Gast-di) @!Mr-GAST : @(Voiceover) This is the final poster . @!DOW : @(Voiceover) After 23 years , Leon Gast has finally finished his film . @(Close-up-of-film-p) @!Mr-GAST : @(Voiceover) It was a labor of love . @!DOW : @(Voiceover) " When We Were Kings " is a trip back in time to the famed Muhammad Ali-George Foreman championship fight ... @(Film-footage-of-Al) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) ... an event that would dramatically change both fighters ' lives . @(Film-footage-of-Al) @!Mr-ALI : And you think the world was surprised when Nixon resigned ? Wait until I kick Foreman 's behind . @!DOW : @(Voiceover) No one @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Did n't think he had a chance . He was 32 years old . He had slowed down considerably . @(Film-footage-of-Fo) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) More importantly , he was facing George Foreman ... @!Mr-ALI : This chump has got everybody scared . @!DOW : @(Voiceover) ... a young , mean fighting machine . @!Mr-GAST : He was -- I guess the one word that would describe him best is he was sullen . @(Film-footage-of-Fo) @!Mr-FOREMAN : Beg your pardon ? Unidentified Reporter : You will continue boxing even if you would lose over there ? @!Mr-FOREMAN : I beg your pardon ? @!Mr-GAST : I mean , people were frightened of George . qwq @ ( Film-footage-of-Al Announcer 1 : Look at the stare on George Foreman . Look at Ali ... @(Footage-of-Foreman) @!Mr-FOREMAN : That 's the face of a killer . @!DOW : @(Voiceover) Even Foreman himself would agree . @!Mr-FOREMAN : I was n't putting on an act . I was a bad man . And I wanted to hit those guys and hurt them , and not only win but I wanted to hurt them . @!DOW @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @(Footage-of-Foreman) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) ... to the kind , lovable guy we all know today ? @(Excerpt-from-Forem) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) It all began with the fight in Zaire . @(Film-footage-of-Al) @!Mr-FOREMAN : @(Voiceover) I was going to kill this guy . @!DOW : You hated him in the ring ? You wanted to kill him . You wanted to beat him so bad . @!Mr-FOREMAN : I hated him . I wanted to kill him . @(Film-footage-of-Al) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) But Ali figured out a way to turn Foreman 's rage to his advantage ... You were pounding away and pounding away . @(Voiceover) ... with the now famous rope-a-dope. @!Mr-FOREMAN : @(Voiceover) Well , I was the dope . He just laid on the rope . @!DOW : He laid on the rope so ... @!Mr-FOREMAN : I 'm the dope because I just wasted my energy . qwq @ ( Film-footage-of-Al Announcer 1 : Ali , a sneaky right hand ... @!Mr-FOREMAN : @(Voiceover) He was cagey . He was smart . Announcer : Foreman takes a right ! qwq @ ( Film-footage-of-Fo Announcer 1 : Three ! Four @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ 1 : Foreman gets up to his knees . Eight ! That 's it ! @!Mr-FOREMAN : Oh , after I lost that fight , I was frustrated for a long time . This man devastated my life . @(Footage-of-Foreman) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) Fact is , after the loss to Ali , Foreman 's life fell apart . qwq @ ( Film-footage-of-Fo Announcer 1 : George Foreman ... @!DOW : @(Voiceover) He quit boxing and turned to preaching . @!Mr-FOREMAN : If I 'd go on the street corners -- and people would walk past me and they 'd really start to offend me . They did n't know who I was . And one day , I said , ' Yes . This is George Foreman . I fought Muhammad Ali . Sure , I lost to him , but ' -- and they stopped . @(Footage-of-people-) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) And they started to listen to his sermons . @!Mr-FOREMAN : @(Voiceover) The Lord is not a name . Unidentified Man 5 : Amen . @(Footage-of-Foreman) @!Mr-FOREMAN : @(Voiceover) He 's like been my gift to the ministry . Just @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ me outside of the ring . @(Footage-of-Foreman) @!Mr-DAVID-LETTERMAN : Ladies and gentlemen , George Foreman . @!DOW : @(Voiceover) Outside the ring , Foreman is now a celebrity . @(Footage-of-Foreman) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) And , of course , he 's gone back inside the ring . Unidentified Announcer 2 : And Rodriguez goes down . @(Footage-of-Foreman) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) And how does Foreman feel about Ali today , the man he once wanted to kill ? @!Mr-FOREMAN : @(Voiceover) And I 'll show you something that is more precious to me than anything . @(Footage-of-signed-) @!Mr-FOREMAN : Right here . He signed this picture ' To George Foreman . Love , Muhammad Ali . ' @!DOW : Now is n't that something ? @!Mr-FOREMAN : This guy has integrity . He stood for something . This is a man . @(Footage-of-crowd-a) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) Today at 56 , Ali has been nearly silenced by Parkinson 's disease . @(Footage-of-Gast-in) @!Mr-GAST : @(Voiceover) There 's something magical about Ali . @!DOW : @(Voiceover) But for Leon and others , Ali 's presence still speaks volumes . qwq @ ( Footage-of-Gast-gr Unidentified Woman @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to see you . @(To-Ali) Hello , champ . Nice to see you . Do you remember me from Zaire , in your face all the time with the camera ? @!DOW : When you look at Muhammad Ali today , what do you see ? What do you think ? @!Mr-GAST : I do n't think I see what -- what everybody else sees . Everybody else sees a man that is suffering from a debilitating disease , but I know that he 's happy , that he 's doing exactly what he wanted to do . @(Footage-of-people-) @!Mr-GAST : @(Voiceover) And that is go out and touch the people . @(Footage-of-Ali-gre) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) The fact is , Ali spends most of his time these days reaching out to his fans . @!Mr-GAST : And here he is. @(Footage-of-Ali-wal) @!Mr-GAST : There he is. @!DOW : @(Voiceover) Leon hopes his film will spread the Ali legacy ... @(Film-footage-of-Al) @!DOW : @(Voiceover) ... to a whole new generation . @(Film-footage-of-Al) @!Mr-ALI : I 'm going to fight so I can let my little brothers , who are sleeping on concrete @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ do is whip George Foreman . @(Footage-of-Foreman) @!Mr-FOREMAN : This man was more than your ordinary boxer . He was the greatest . @(Film-footage-of-Al) @!Mr-ALI : I have a lot of things to do when I start fighting in the black neighborhoods . We have a lot of problems . @(Film-footage-of-Al) @!Mr-ALI : Ali ! Ali ! @!Mr-GAST : I mean , this guy really made a difference . @(Film-footage-of-Al) @!Mr-GAST : A real hero . @!RATHER : @(Voiceover) Next , we 've all been there . @(Footage-of-Gast-on) @!Mr-GAST : Well , we 'll find out soon . @!RATHER : @(Voiceover) How one call ... @(Audio-of-phone-rin) @!RATHER : @(Voiceover) ... can change everything . @(Footage-of-Gast-an) @!Mr-GAST : Hello . @(Announcements) @(Footage-of-Gast-pa) @!RATHER : @(Voiceover) Ever wonder what it 's like waiting for that call ... @(Audio-of-phone-rin) @!RATHER : @(Voiceover) ... hoping for an Oscar nomination ? @(Footage-of-Gast-an) @!Mr-GAST : Hello . @!BARBARA : Did you hear ? @!Mr-GAST : No. @!BARBARA : You have n't heard yet ? @!Mr-GAST : Who 's this ? @!BARBARA : Barbara . @!Mr-GAST : Hey , no , I have n't . Let me call @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ : I guess I 'm as nervous as I 've ever been in my entire life and ... @(Audio-of-phone-rin) @!Mr-GAST : Hello . Unidentified Man 6 : You did n't hear anything , did you ? @!Mr-GAST : No . Man 6 : Me , neither . @!Mr-GAST : Oh , boy . I 'm -- I guess if we have n't heard by 9:00 , it -- you know , we were n't nominated . Man 6 : Oh , man . @!Mr-GAST : Well , we 'll find out soon . @(Footage-of-Gast-f) @!Mr-GAST : Hello . @!RUSSELL : We got it . @!Mr-GAST : We got it ? @!RUSSELL : Leon , it 's Russell . Congratulations . I love you . @!Mr-GAST : I love you , too , Russell . @(Footage-of-Gast-hu) @!Mr-GAST : We got it , honey . Unidentified Woman 3 : We got it . @!Mr-GAST : We got it . qwq @ ( Footage-of-Gast-ki 
##221756 THE BOSS : OUGHT TO BE A LAW @!DAN-RATHER-host : Good evening . Did you have a bad day at the office ? What about yesterday ? And whom do you blame ? By one estimate , one-quarter of American workers know whom to blame and know what to do about it . They 've quit jobs because of a bad boss . That 's our focus tonight : bad bosses . What makes them tick ? What to do if you get in their way . We 'll also spend time with a man who makes a pretty good living off bad bosses , Scott Adams , creator of the comic strip Dilbert . And just for good measure , you 'll also meet a good boss , almost too good to be true . We begin with Erin Moriarty and the story of two women who 'd love to give their bosses the business . qwq @ ( Footage-of-telepho Unidentified Woman 1 : ( Voiceover ; on the telephone ) My boss is freaking out because three people did n't show up . You know , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ( Voiceover ; on the telephone ) I was -- asked to go home sick and I was told I could not leave the building . Unidentified Woman 3 : ( Voiceover ; on the telephone ) He never said anything to me about me being fired . Unidentified Woman 4 : ( Voiceover ; on the telephone ) This incident of -- to my employer -- he put me on a temporary leave and then finally he told me that I was terminated . Unidentified Woman 5 : ( Voiceover ; on the telephone ) A supervisor verbally attacked me. @(Footage-of-hot-lin) @!ERIN-MORIARTY-repo : @(Voiceover) If calls coming into this national hot line in Atlanta are any indication ... Woman 5 ( Voiceover ; on the telephone ) I feel kind of helpless right now . I do n't really know what to do ... @!MORIARTY : @(Voiceover) ... all is not well in offices across the country . Unidentified Woman 6 : ( On the telephone ) You 're not alone . There are a lot of people this is happening to . @(Footage-of-office-) @!MORIARTY : @(Voiceover) And nearly all @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ 7 : ( Voiceover ; on the telephone ) And then I told him I was going to file a complaint on him . @(Footage-of-office-) @!MORIARTY : @(Voiceover) ... the boss . @!Ms-ELAINE-SUBBE-HI : @(Voiceover) He would pull me into the office twice a week . He would -- we used to call -- actually call it being ' put under the lights . ' He would grill you . @(Footage-of-Subey-H) @!MORIARTY : @(Voiceover) Elaine Subey-Hert says she had a boss much worse than most ... @!Ms-SUBBE-HIRT : He would be so hostile . @(Footage-of-Subey-H) @!MORIARTY : @(Voiceover) ... one she says was deliberately abusive. @!Ms-SUBBE-HIRT : @(Voiceover) I could n't even speak up for myself . I could n't defend myself . He would n't let me. @(Footage-of-Subey-H) @!MORIARTY : @(Voiceover) But unlike most employees , Elaine did n't just take it . She 's taking him to court . @!Ms-SUBBE-HIRT : @(Voiceover) Now it 's my turn . It 's my turn to question him . Thank you . @!MORIARTY : Elaine almost did n't make it this far . When she first went to court six years ago @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ last year a federal appeals court gave Elaine a second chance to sue her boss for intentional abuse . @!Ms-SUBBE-HIRT : Here 's a picture that someone took of Mr. Baccigalupi and myself . @(Footage-of-Subey-H) @!MORIARTY : @(Voiceover) Elaine had worked for three years as a sales agent for Prudential Insurance Company when Robert Baccigalupi became her district manager in 1987 . You turned this over . Why ? @!Ms-SUBBE-HIRT : I -- I feel like he 's looking at me. @(Footage-of-Moriart) @!MORIARTY : @(Voiceover) Twice a week , she says , she was called into his office to discuss her work performance . @!Ms-SUBBE-HIRT : Actually what we used to say among ourselves is we had to go in and have root canal . @!MORIARTY : And what did that mean , to do a root canal ? @!Mr-GENE-PANZA : Well , to get down into the nerve . @(Footage-of-Panza) @!MORIARTY : @(Voiceover) Gene Panza ... @!Mr-LEE-HAMMOND : It 's indescribable . @(Footage-of-Hammond) @!MORIARTY : @(Voiceover) ... Lee Hammmond and Bill Morgan were other Prudential employees who also had to answer to Robert Baccigalupi. @!Mr-BILL-MORGAN : Primarily if you had @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ it was time to go in and get the root canal . @!Mr-HAMMOND : I can remember vividly being condemned verbally with the most vile language that you can imagine and not being able to say anything . @!Mr-PANZA : Well , he could take somebody and literally reach right inside of them and take their heart right out . @!Mr-HAMMOND : It broke me . And that was his intent : get rid of people he did n't hire because he could n't control every waking minute of their lives . @!Mr-PANZA : He was out to get her . @(Footage-of-Hammond) @!MORIARTY : @(Voiceover) Gene Panza has also filed claims against Baccigalupi . He was present at the meeting Elaine says finally broke her . @!Ms-SUBBE-HIRT : @(Voiceover) This was a session where he was pounding the desk . He was screaming and yelling . @!Mr-PANZA : He left that woman nothing . I mean , she was a -- she was a basket case . @(Footage-of-traffic) @!Ms-SUBBE-HIRT : @(Voiceover) And on the way home , I do n't know whether I blacked out . But I hit a tractor @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @!Ms-SUBBE-HIRT : @(Voiceover) When I woke up in the hospital , the only thing I could think of or see was his face . @!MORIARTY : @(Voiceover) After six months of recovering from her injuries , Elaine returned to work . @!Ms-SUBBE-HIRT : @(Voiceover) And then it was only a couple of weeks and he started in again . I said , ' I -- I ca n't do this . ' @(Footage-of-Flander) @!MORIARTY : @(Voiceover) She never went back to Prudential . @!Ms-SUBBE-HIRT : I feel he took my soul . @(Photograph-of-Bacc) @!MORIARTY : @(Voiceover) Robert Baccigalupi , of course , does n't see it that way . In this statement to 48 HOURS , Baccigalupi denies all of the allegations . Furthermore , he claims he was acting consistently with Prudential management procedures . And it 's clear from court documents , Baccigalupi sees himself as a tough boss dealing with an employee and her , quote , " unprofessional , disloyal and otherwise problematic conduct . " @!Ms-SUBBE-HIRT : Well , that would be hard to believe because for the first four or five years that I was @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ was number nine every year . @(Footage-of-Subey-H) @!MORIARTY : @(Voiceover) And this is just the beginning of the countercharges Elaine herself is likely to face . @!Ms-TERESSA-WOLFE : The employer is going to try to make you look like you 're the one that caused it . qwq @ ( Footage-of-Wolfe ; - @!MORIARTY : @(Voiceover) Teressa Wolfe has been there . She sued the boss she worked for at a Hardee 's franchise , John Herkenraider. @!Ms-WOLFE : @(Voiceover) He just crossed the line . He went from being a demanding boss to a very verbally abusive boss to a boss who would come in and throw things at you . @!Mr-JAY-BYRUM-@1Ter : To be told when she 's seven months pregnant to climb into a Dumpster to find a burnt biscuit , when she 's pregnant to have a -- a tin full of hot baked beans essentially thrown in front of her and she 's showered with baked beans ... qwq @ ( Footage-of-menu ; -H @!MORIARTY : @(Voiceover) If things were so bad at Hardee 's , why did n't you just quit ? @!Ms-WOLFE : I @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ think we could make it . I had two ba -- I -- my husband did n't even have insurance . @(Footage-Hardee's-c) @!MORIARTY : @(Voiceover) But Teressa finally did quit , and one year later she sued her boss and the company that owned the franchise for $ 1 1/2 million . They both denied the charges and refused to talk with us . But employment lawyer Chris Barraca would . @!Mr-CHRIS-BARRACA-@ : But you 're talking about who 's going to make that judgment of what 's abusive and that 's the problem . @(Footage-of-Barraca) @!MORIARTY : @(Voiceover) He says these kinds of conflicts in the workplace do n't belong in court . @!Mr-BARRACA : The issue is not whether or not any of us want a better place to work , we all do . The issue is really whether or not we want to open up this vast new area of -- of lawsuits in our society . qwq @ ( Footage-of-Hardee ' @!MORIARTY : @(Voiceover) But Teressa never made it to court . @!Ms-WOLFE : @(Voiceover) When I originally filed this suit , I thought that some @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ would support me in some way . And I found that that support was n't going to be there . They were looking out for their jobs . @(Footage-of-inside-) @!MORIARTY : @(Voiceover) Instead , she settled the case for $ 55,000 . And as for John Herkenraider , he still holds the same job at the Hardee 's franchise . @!Ms-WOLFE : @(Voiceover) If I could have made that workplace better for just one other person , then I thought I accomplished something . And -- and I 'm sorry to say I made no difference . qwq @ ( Footage-of-Hardee ' @!MORIARTY : @(Voiceover) Teressa 's experience shows just how difficult some of these cases can be . So far , no one in West Virginia has taken an abusive boss to trial and won . @(Footage-of-Subey-H) @!MORIARTY : @(Voiceover) In New Jersey , Elaine Subey-Hert hopes to be the first one . @!Ms-SUBBE-HIRT : @(Voiceover) At this point it 's been so long and so hard , and I 'm hoping this -- this will be my closure . @(Footage-of-Courtro) @!MORIARTY : @(Voiceover) But as you 'll see later @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ setback of her own . 
##221757 BRUDERHOF qwq @ ( Footage-of-48-HOUR Unidentified Man 1 : Stephan and Anna , this is the beginning of your wedding preparation ... @!BILL-LAGATTUTA : ( Voiceover ) Of all the traditions the Bruderhof hold sacred , none is stronger than the bond of marriage . qwq @ ( Graphic-indicating Unidentified Man 2 : ( Voiceover ) We believe that a marriage has to last a whole life . @(Footage-of-celebra) @!LAGATTUTA : ( Voiceover ) Tonight the commune is celebrating the upcoming wedding of two members with a ritual known as ' the love meal . ' Unidentified Man 3 : Heavenly Father , we thank thee ... @(Footage-of-Sybil-S) @!LAGATTUTA : ( Voiceover ) That commitment of family is one of the things that attracted Sybil Sender to the Bruderhof 38 years ago . @!Ms-SYBIL-SENDER : The proof is in the pudding . Our movement , 75 years , no divorces. @(Footage-of-man-and) @!LAGATTUTA : ( Voiceover ) No divorce ? Well , not exactly . What do you think the Bruderhof leadership thinks of you today ? @!Mr-RAMON-SENDER-@1 : Oh , I think I 'm the devil incarnate . @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ who dragged her into the Bruderhof ? You 're the devil ? @!Mr-SENDER : I 'm the devil incarnate . @(Footage-of-Ramon-S) @!LAGATTUTA : ( Voiceover ) Meet Ramon Sender , Sybil 's ex-husband . The enemy . @!Mr-SENDER : I 'm the enemy . @(Footage-of-Ramon-S) @!LAGATTUTA : ( Voiceover ) Not long after introducing Sybil to ' the life ' ... @!Mr-SENDER : I wrote her saying , ' Would you meet me in New York ? ' @(Footage-of-Ramon-S) @!LAGATTUTA : ( Voiceover ) ... Ramon decided it was n't for him and left . @!Mr-SENDER : And all I got was a engraved announcement of her becoming a member . @(Footage-of-Ramon) @!LAGATTUTA : ( Voiceover ) And that 's when he found himself cut off ... @!Mr-SENDER : From that point on , I was never allowed contact either with her or my daughter . Oh , here she is . This was in New York , my little baby . @(Photo-of-Zavery-as) @!LAGATTUTA : ( Voiceover ) ... because along with Sybil , Ramon also left behind his daughter Zavery , then a toddler . How long have you been @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ : Well ... @!LAGATTUTA : ... have been rejected ? @!Mr-SENDER : ... 16 years . @(Photo-of-Zavery-as) @!LAGATTUTA : ( Voiceover ) Sixteen years of trying to get to see her ... @!Mr-SENDER : ( Voiceover ) Yes . Yeah . @!LAGATTUTA : ( Voiceover ) ... and being turned away . @!Mr-SENDER : ( Voiceover ) Right . This is a picture I took of her in the diner . @(Footage-of-Ramon-S) @!LAGATTUTA : ( Voiceover ) Father and daughter finally met when Zavery was 18. @!Mr-SENDER : She was obviously so happy to see me , and we -- we talked , but then suddenly her -- her face would change . @(Photo-of-Zavery-as) @!Mr-SENDER : ( Voiceover ) And I could see what was going through her mind saying , ' Oh , dear , I should n't be this excited because I have to remain faithful to the community and -- and to my mother . ' @(Footage-of-Sybil-S) @!LAGATTUTA : ( Voiceover ) But Sybil remembers the meeting quite differently . @!Ms-SENDER : ( Voiceover ) She said , ' Daddy , I do n't want to do those @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ here of love and brotherhood and obedience to God . ' @(Footage-of-Ramon-S) @!LAGATTUTA : ( Voiceover ) Ramon returned to San Francisco and tried to keep tabs on his daughter ... @!Mr-SENDER : ( Voiceover ) I could see she was on the horns of a dilemma . @!LAGATTUTA : ( Voiceover ) ... to no avail . @(Footage-of-Ramon-S) @!Mr-SENDER : ( Voiceover ) The Bruderhof has a way of behaving with ex-members . They do n't let them have phone calls through their family . They do n't answer their letters . They do n't allow visits . @(Photo-album-shown-) @!LAGATTUTA : This is ... @!Mr-SENDER : ... Dori. @!LAGATTUTA : You did n't know that she h -- got married ? @!Mr-SENDER : I did n't know . @!LAGATTUTA : You did n't know that she had two children ? @!Mr-SENDER : No. @!LAGATTUTA : And then in the end , you did n't know that she died ... @(Photo-of-family-me) @!Mr-SENDER : ( Voiceover ) That 's right , until several months later . @!LAGATTUTA : ( Voiceover ) ... until after she was gone . @!Mr-SENDER : ( Voiceover @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ my son-in-law saying that Zavi had died of cancer . And of c -- you know , I -- I was floored . At first I did n't believe it . I mean , I was climbing the walls . @(Photos-of-Zavery-a) @!Mr-SENDER : ( Voiceover ) I mean , what -- can you imagine ? This was the most horrible thing I could imagine because I 'd always clung to the hope that somewhere down the line we would have this -- this great moment together where we would be in each other 's arms . And to give up that hope that I had been clinging to was one of the hardest things I 've ever had to do . @(Footage-of-Lagattu) @!LAGATTUTA : ( Voiceover ) When confronted with this , Sybil and the Bruderhof close ranks . Was that fair not to notify him when she became ill ? @!Ms-SENDER : Zavery , my daughter , did not once ask to see her father . @(Vintage-photo-of-S) @!Ms-SENDER : ( Voiceover ) Death in the community is a very special experience , and it would have been the last thing @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ must be at least 500. @(Footage-of-Ramon-S) @!LAGATTUTA : ( Voiceover ) Zavery 's death galvanized Ramon to search for other ex-members. @!Mr-SENDER : I started with one phone number , got two more . I got four more , got six more . Within a month I talked to 30 people . @(On-phone) My mother passed away in -- in the English Bruderhof. @(Footage-of-Lagattu) @!LAGATTUTA : ( Voiceover ) He found his situation was far from unique . What 's the biggest concern among all of the ex-members you 're in contact with today ? @!Mr-SENDER : Visiting rights , access to their families . @!LAGATTUTA : Can he see his grandchildren if he wants ? @!Ms-SENDER : At -- he -- at the moment , the -- the family feels it 's not fitting for him to visit . @!LAGATTUTA : Do you feel that way ? @!Ms-SENDER : Very much so , yes . @(Footage-of-Ramon-S) @!LAGATTUTA : ( Voiceover ) Ramon put together a newsletter called Keep In Touch , or KIT , and says he has hundreds of subscribers . Professor JULIUS RUBIN : What they 've said @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ enemy of the Bruderhof and sworn to destroy them . That is their -- that has been their official position . @(Footage-of-Rubin-t) @!LAGATTUTA : ( Voiceover ) Professor Julius Rubin. @!Prof-RUBIN : The attitude they have that there are sworn enemies on the outside that are actively seeking to destroy them , that 's what upsets me. @(Footage-of-Lagattu) @!LAGATTUTA : ( Voiceover ) But commune leader Christoph Arnold denies that Ramon is the Bruderhof 's public enemy number one . @!Mr-CHRISTOPH-ARNOL : Actually I thank God for Ramon because he keeps us on our toes , and it 's good to have critics . @(Footage-of-Lagattu) @!LAGATTUTA : ( Voiceover ) Still , critics insist the Bruderhof must be watched . Professor BENJAMIN ZABLOCKI : The vulnerability is there , and I do think that we would be wise as a society to learn from past mistakes . @(Footage-of-Zablock) @!LAGATTUTA : ( Voiceover ) Thirty years ago Professor Benjamin Zablocki lived at the Bruderhof while doing research . He even published a book praising the commune , but today he views the Bruderhof with caution . @!Prof-ZABLOCKI : I think that it @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ attention to the group and to subject them to a little bit more external surveillance . @(Footage-of-Lagattu) @!LAGATTUTA : ( Voiceover ) Christoph was upset when he heard Zablocki 's words . @!Mr-ARNOLD : Do you know when he was here ? In the early ' 60s . That is -- What now ? -- almost 40 years . And he ha -- he has n't been on the Bruderhof except , perhaps , a one-hour visit . @!LAGATTUTA : When you hear the word ' cult ' what does that say to you ? @!Mr-ARNOLD : That 's a worn-out phrase . Everything unusual now is a cult . @(Footage-of-teen-co) @!Mr-ARNOLD : ( Voiceover ) I have a responsibility before God for everything which happens here . So , man alive , I do n't want to have anything to do with a cult . I know -- I know we are accused as being one , but God knows . God knows . @(Footage-of-Sybil-S) @!LAGATTUTA : ( Voiceover ) If you 're a true believer like Sybil Sender ... @!Ms-SENDER : Following God is what my life is about @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ your life to the Bruderhof . Unidentified Man 4 : So let 's tuck in. qwq @ ( Footage-of-Zavery ' @!LAGATTUTA : ( Voiceover ) Meanwhile , Ramon Sender 's grandchildren continue to live in the Bruderhof with Ramon 's son-in-law , John Rhodes , the CEO of the Bruderhof businesses . @!LAGATTUTA : You 'd like to have a relationship with your grandchildren ? @!Mr-SENDER : Well , of course . Are you kidding ? Look at these kids . They 're won -- adorable . Little Dori -- oh . And here she is with her little daughter . @(Footage-of-photo-a) @!LAGATTUTA : That 's your Za ... @!Mr-SENDER : That 's my granddaughter. @!LAGATTUTA : ( Voiceover ) Rhodes told us he will not allow Ramon to see his grandchildren . Pretty baby . @!Mr-SENDER : Yeah , very -- very cute . @(Footage-of-Suzanna) @!LAGATTUTA : ( Voiceover ) And Suzannah Zumpe , she did finally connect with her parents . The conversation did not begin happily . @!Ms-SUZANNAH-ZUMPE : @(On-phone) Well , I 'm sure it hurts , Dad , but you do n't want to be with @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ with me in public . @(Graphic-indicating) @!Ms-ZUMPE : @(On-phone) You do n't want to talk take my calls . You do n't want to answer my letters . Of course it 's not easy to listen to me because you feel extremely guilty for cutting me off . You gave me up when I was born . You handed me over to the church to raise . It 's all conditions with you people . ' I 'll love you if . I 'll be your parent if . ' What about unconditional love ? @!Mr-BEN-ZUMPE-@1Suz : Every day we start the day praying for her . Of course it hurts . @!LAGATTUTA : What do you imagine will happen to her ? @!Mr-ZUMPE : I have no idea . I do n't know . @!Mrs-MARIANA-ZUMPE- : I do n't know . @!Mr-ZUMPE : I have no idea . We -- we wish her the best . @(Footage-of-band-pl) @!LAGATTUTA : ( Voiceover ) And back at the commune , there is more work to be done , more babies to welcome , more life to be lived in a place Sybil @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ : We do n't expect to be loved by everybody . We know our life is controversial . @!DAN-RATHER-@1Host@ : We want to be absolutely clear on this point . There is no suggestion whatever of any link between the Bruderhof commune and what took place at the mansion in Rancho Santa Fe , California . What we 're trying to do is give you a range of things to think about when you think about cults , communes and people who remain apart . Up next , late developments in and around San Diego . qwq @ ( Footage-of-48-HOUR @(Announcements) 
##221758 BRUDERHOF @!DAN-RATHER-host : America has a long tradition of small religious groups creating communities , separate from the daily grind . And most of them are peaceful . But even a peaceful group that goes its own way can sometimes come into harsh , unpredictable conflict with the modern world . For the past six months Bill Lagattuta has been looking at one group 's version of splendid isolation . qwq @ ( Footage-of-Bruderh Unidentified Man 1 : @(Voiceover) My first impression was ' Here 's Utopia . ' Here are all these families , they 're happy . Here are all these kids playing together . It 's in the country . qwq @ ( Footage-of-Bruderh Unidentified Woman 1 : @(Voiceover) I was very happy . I remember just going for walks with our group with the teacher and always having somebody to be with and knowing everybody . qwq @ ( Footage-of-people- Unidentified Man 2 : @(Voiceover) It blew me away . I really thought that it was the most fantastic thing that I 'd ever seen . It 's a genuine reflection of the simple @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ money . @(Footage-of-horse-a) @!BILL-LAGATTUTA-rep : @(Voiceover) To find the tranquility of the Bruderhof , which means a place of brothers , you do n't have to look that far . Just an hour and a half from the bustle of New York City is one of the world 's oldest surviving communes. @(Footage-of-Bruderh) @!Ms-SYBIL-SENDER : @(Voiceover) We want to do God 's work . @!LAGATTUTA : @(Voiceover) This Christian enclave exported from Germany 77 years is the place Sybil Sender discovered back in 1958. @!Ms-SENDER : People often ask , ' Where do you people live ? ' And we live in these buildings . @(Footage-of-Bruderh) @!Ms-SENDER : @(Voiceover) We try to keep our standard of living low which means that we share as much as possible . @(Footage-of-Sender-) @!LAGATTUTA : @(Voiceover) But Sybil did n't come by choice . @!Ms-SENDER : I was building up inner venom the entire trip . @(Footage-of-Sender-) @!LAGATTUTA : @(Voiceover) Her husband practically dragged her in kicking and screaming . @!Ms-SENDER : Finally I said , ' All right . To get this over with , I will go to the Bruderhof . I will @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ be the end of this argument , OK ? ' ' OK . ' So I put on my fire-engine red , tube-knit dress . I wanted to come across as something these prudes would really reject . @(Footage-of-Sender-) @!LAGATTUTA : @(Voiceover) Now 40 years into the life ... @!Ms-SENDER : Simple , modest and we think it makes a statement . @(Footage-of-women-u) @!LAGATTUTA : @(Voiceover) ... Sybil has a somewhat different sense of fashion . @!Ms-SENDER : @(Voiceover) We do not want to focus attention on ourselves as physical beings , but as people who are ready to serve . @(Footage-of-female-) @!LAGATTUTA : @(Voiceover) And the best way to serve , ... @!Mr-CHRISTOPH-ARNOL : The cohesiveness of family life has been destroyed . @(Footage-of-Arnold-) @!LAGATTUTA : @(Voiceover) ... according to commune leader Christoph Arnold ... @!Mr-ARNOLD : We need to rediscover the family . @(Footage-of-women-s) @!LAGATTUTA : @(Voiceover) ... is to live , as the Bruderhofs say , in community . Christoph , like his father and grandfather before him , presides over all the Bruderhof members scattered in communes across the US and England . Current total membership : @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , our activities are very often a sense of a prayer to God . When people come up here and they say , ' Where 's your church ? ' And I have to say ' We have none . It -- the church is everything we 're doing . ' @!LAGATTUTA : Because of the way they dress , because of their communal lifestyle , the Bruderhof may seem like they 're living in another century , like their cousins the Amish . But there are a few surprises here . For one thing , the brothers and sisters of the Bruderhof do n't run from technology . As a matter of fact , they embrace it ... @!BONNIE : ( Answering call ) Good morning , Rifton Community Playthings . This is Bonnie . qwq @ ( Footage-of-Bonnie ; @!LAGATTUTA : @(Voiceover) ... which means the Bruderhof are hooked up online . Unidentified Woman 2 : ( On telephone ) We 're having a bit of a problem with stock and it should probably come within the next week . qwq @ ( Footage-of-invento Unidentified Woman 3 : @(Voiceover) @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ E-87s. qwq @ ( Footage-of-women-u Unidentified Woman 4 : ... from community placing ... @!LAGATTUTA : @(Voiceover) And for a small religious community ... qwq @ ( Footage-of-Bruderh Unidentified Man 3 : Looks OK . Got the knobs . @!LAGATTUTA : @(Voiceover) ... the Bruderhof is quite a big business with factories that churn out day-care furniture and equipment for the disabled . @!Mr-JOHN-RHODES : @(Voiceover) We have a lot of overhead in the sense that we do n't have a paid payroll . @!LAGATTUTA : @(Voiceover) The Bruderhof grossed $ 25 million last year . @!Mr-RHODES : I think I 'm the lowest paid CEO in the country . My -- my salary is zero . @(Footage-of-Rhodes) @!LAGATTUTA : @(Voiceover) John Rhodes considers himself just another brother . @!Mr-RHODES : But my joy is great because this is a wonderful place to be and a wonderful place to work . @(Footage-of-Bruderh) @!LAGATTUTA : @(Voiceover) As for the workers ... Unidentified Woman 5 : My mother eyesight is going . Unidentified Man 4 : Let me check that out . @(Footage-of-man-exa) @!LAGATTUTA : @(Voiceover) ... they get exactly as much as @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ come down here and work . @!LAGATTUTA : @(Voiceover) Nothing . Woman 5 : And she -- she feels mostly , but she knows it very well . @(Footage-of-man-wor) @!LAGATTUTA : @(Voiceover) But you 'd never know it from watching them work . Woman 5 : Here we say you work till you can only wiggle the small finger . qwq @ ( Footage-of-man-shu Woman 5 : @(Voiceover) No work is the devil 's workshop . @!LAGATTUTA : @(Voiceover) The Bruderhof 's latest venture ... @(Footage-of-airplan) @!LAGATTUTA : This is what kind of plane ? @(Voiceover) ... is a charter airline service for luxury clients . @(Footage-of-pamphle) @!Mr-JOE-KIDERLING : This is a Gulfstream III built in 1984. @(Footage-of-inside-) @!Mr-KIDERLING : @(Voiceover) This chair here is the CEO 's chair . The controls for the whole aircraft , for all the lighting and the -- and the videos and the sound system , is all from that chair . There 's a phone ... @!LAGATTUTA : That 's the chair you want to reserve on this -- on this flight , eh ? @(Footage-of-cockpit) @!LAGATTUTA : @(Voiceover) And riding in it ? @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ close to heaven . @!Mr-KIDERLING : It 's the -- the best way you can travel . @(Footage-of-Kiderli) @!LAGATTUTA : @(Voiceover) Joe kiderling , one of the brothers . @!Mr-KIDERLING : Yeah . We got two separate phones and a separate line for the fax . @!LAGATTUTA : Well , this is the way to go . @(Footage-of-plane-d) @!LAGATTUTA : @(Voiceover) Celebrities rent this thing ? @!Mr-KIDERLING : Yeah , Sharon Stone , Van Halen. @!LAGATTUTA : Van Halen has flown this plane ? @!Mr-KIDERLING : Yeah , they 've flown in -- flown the plane . Yeah . @!LAGATTUTA : Do you find anything at all unusual about the fact that you 're in this business , but at the same time you 're a religious community dedicated to living a life of poverty , a life of ... @!Mr-KIDERLING : I ... @!LAGATTUTA : ... really having nothing ? @!Mr-KIDERLING : Personally , I -- I find it thrilling . @(Footage-of-childre) @!LAGATTUTA : @(Voiceover) It sounds like the best of both worlds . qwq @ ( Footage-of-man-usi Unidentified Man 5 : This is some technology we 're exploring . @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ is this too good to be true ? Professor JULIUS RUBIN ( Author ) : @(Voiceover) From the first look , it 's so appealing and so wonderful , but there 's a lot more to this group than meets the eye . All the necessities in their life are -- are provided for . @(Footage-of-Rubin-w) @!LAGATTUTA : @(Voiceover) Professor and author Julius Rubin. @!Prof-RUBIN : The tradeoff is that at any time they can be -- they can be placed in a crisis . They can be told that , ' Enemies are threatening and that we must mobilize. ' @!LAGATTUTA : It sounds like you 're describing an atmosphere of fear . @!Ms-SUZANNAH-ZUMPE : Oh , yeah . You live in con -- well , I personally lived in constant fear . @(Photo-of-Zumpe-sin) @!LAGATTUTA : @(Voiceover) When we come back , meet a teen-ager who ran away after she broke one of the Bruderhof 's cardinal rules . What happened to you ? @!Ms-ZUMPE : Well ... @(Photo-of-Zumpe) @!Ms-ZUMPE : @(Voiceover) ... I got caught kissing a boy . @(Announcements) @!RATHER : Tonight a special edition of 48 HOURS @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ -- people going their own way can sometimes go too far . We rejoin Bill Lagattuta 's look at a little piece of heaven outside New York City . Or is it ? @(Footage-of-woman-p) @!Ms-ZUMPE : I was just very desperate to get out of there . @(Footage-of-Zumpe-w) @!LAGATTUTA : @(Voiceover) Suzannah Zumpe was born into the Bruderhof. @!Ms-ZUMPE : Yes . Eberhard Arnold is my great-grandfather and he 's the person who founded the whole thing . @(Footage-of-Zumpe-d) @!LAGATTUTA : @(Voiceover) But for her , life in the community was no paradise . @!Ms-ZUMPE : For me , the commune was hell . Now that I 'm out , I feel so free . It was the best thing I ever did . Leaving the commune was the best thing I ever did . qwq @ ( Footage-of-Zumpe ; - @!LAGATTUTA : @(Voiceover) She fled in the middle of the night ... @!Ms-ZUMPE : @(Voiceover) Yeah , because I just left a little note on the bed saying , ' I 've made my choice . ' @!LAGATTUTA : @(Voiceover) ... when she was only 15 years old . @!Ms-ZUMPE @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ was going to leave -- that I was leaving that night . And I walked for a couple of miles and it was pouring with rain . It was an awful storm . I 've never been so scared in my life . @(Footage-of-Zumpe-w) @!LAGATTUTA : @(Voiceover) Today , at age 18 , Suzannah is busy rebuilding her life far away from the Bruderhof. @!Ms-ZUMPE : And I learned that the world was n't all bad the way they made it out to be . @(Footage-of-Zumpe) @!LAGATTUTA : @(Voiceover) And she has not spoken to her parents in more than a year . @!Ms-ZUMPE : My parents -- if I call there , they do n't take my calls , they do n't answer my letters . @(Footage-of-Bruderh) @!LAGATTUTA : @(Voiceover) Why was she so afraid and what did she do to get on the wrong side of the Bruderhof ? What happened to you ? @!Ms-ZUMPE : Well , I got caught kissing a boy . It was ... @!LAGATTUTA : You were how old ? @!Ms-ZUMPE : Fourteen . It was very harmless . @(Footage-of-Zumpe-w) @!LAGATTUTA : @(Voiceover) Harmless @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and girls . What did they say to you ? @!Ms-ZUMPE : Oh , they told me that I was a whore and that if I did n't stop it , I would go to hell . @!LAGATTUTA : For kissing a boy ? @!Ms-ZUMPE : Yes . And that I was playing with fire and -- yeah , a whore . @!LAGATTUTA : It -- it sounds like you 're describing an atmosphere of fear . @!Ms-ZUMPE : Oh , yeah . You live in con -- well , I personally lived in constant fear . I was in constant fear of being caught for this or that . And I was always getting in trouble for the way I walked , for the way I talked , for -- for everything . @!Prof-RUBIN : I think what Suzie said is true . @(Footage-of-Rubin-w) @!LAGATTUTA : @(Voiceover) Professor Julius Rubin interviewed Suzannah for his book on the Bruderhof. @(Photos-of-Zumpe-wi) @!Prof-RUBIN : @(Voiceover) What they said to her was , because of her listening to popular music and folk music , because she shaved her legs , that they said that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ For that behavior , she was made an outcast . @!Ms-ZUMPE : I was not allowed to talk to anyone or contact -- make contact with anybody except for my parents . @(Photo-of-Zumpe-wit) @!Ms-ZUMPE : @(Voiceover) I was n't allowed to talk to any of the other young people . They 're so concerned with their little rules and their little this -- this and thats that they forget the main message Jesus had , which was to love . @(Footage-of-Christo) @!LAGATTUTA : @(Voiceover) Before she ran away , Suzannah , taking her sister 's advice , agreed to talk to Bruderhof leader Christoph Arnold . @!Ms-ZUMPE : @(Voiceover) I did not want to talk to him . It was the last thing I felt like doing . @!LAGATTUTA : She says you told her if she left , she 'd end up as a prostitute and die of AIDS. @!Mr-ARNOLD : That 's -- that 's what she says , yeah . @!LAGATTUTA : Did you say that to her ? @(Footage-of-Arnolds) @!LAGATTUTA : @(Voiceover) Christoph hesitated , but his wife Verena remembers Suzannah well . @!Mrs-VERENA-ARNOLD : Yes . @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ was a warning ? @!Mrs-ARNOLD : Yes , out of love for her . She was very flirty girl . ( Unintelligible ) @!LAGATTUTA : Very flirty ? @!Mrs-ARNOLD : Very flirty . @!Mr-ARNOLD : I know Suzie is a very unhappy girl . @!Mrs-ARNOLD : Yes . @!Mr-ARNOLD : And we tried to help her . We did n't succeed . You do n't always ... @!Mrs-ARNOLD : No. @!Mr-ARNOLD : ... succeed but we tried . @(Footage-of-Ben-and) @!LAGATTUTA : @(Voiceover) It was n't only Christoph Arnold who chastised Suzannah. @!Mrs-MARIANA-ZUMPE : She was a terrible flirt and we were scared for her . @!LAGATTUTA : @(Voiceover) Suzannah 's parents , Ben and Mariana Zumpe , agreed to tell us their side of the story . She says she got in tremendous trouble for -- for kissing a boy . @!Mr-BEN-ZUMPE : Yes , because we feel -- we strongly believe in a life of purity . We take a very firm stand . No sexuality or anything like that between boys and girls before they are married . @!LAGATTUTA : No -- no kissing ? @!Mr-ZUMPE : No. @!LAGATTUTA @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ? @!Mr-ZUMPE : No . Absolutely no because you are playing with fire . One leads to the other . If you start ... @!Mrs-ZUMPE : ... ( Unintelligible ) . @!Mr-ZUMPE : If -- if you start kissing and h -- hand holding , it -- where will it stop ? We are too weak for it . @(Footage-of-Bruderh) @!LAGATTUTA : @(Voiceover) With the harsh words of her elders ringing in her ears ... @!Ms-ZUMPE : Because I did n't know what I would do if they somehow realized I was gone . @(Footage-of-settlem) @!LAGATTUTA : @(Voiceover) ... Suzannah carried out her escape plan . @!Ms-ZUMPE : @(Voiceover) What are they going to do ? Come chasing after me and then what , you know ? @(Footage-of-Ben-and) @!LAGATTUTA : @(Voiceover) In fact , Suzannah 's parents did try to talk her into returning . @!Mr-ZUMPE : I pleaded with her to come back with us. @(Footage-of-Suzanna) @!LAGATTUTA : @(Voiceover) But she refused . @!Ms-ZUMPE : The only way that I could get back with my parents is to go back and join and I 'm never going to do that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ -- she was made an outcast . @!Mr-ZUMPE : Absolutely not . That is absolutely not true . Suzie was totally forgiven . @!LAGATTUTA : Are they shunned ? @!Mr-ZUMPE : Well , we have church discipline . @!LAGATTUTA : Are you cut off from other members of the commune ? @!Mr-ZUMPE : Yes , for a few days . @!Prof-RUBIN : Families are shattered all the time because of exclusion and ch -- and church discipline . And children are traumatized by this process in the same way that they might be traumatized by divorce . @!LAGATTUTA : What exactly is church discipline because it sounds an awful lot like shunning a person . @!Prof-RUBIN : Yes , the first type of discipline is simply where people will simp -- will not talk to you . It 's some of the worst emotional cruelty and punishment that anyone could ever suffer . @!LAGATTUTA : How many children do you have ? @!Mr-ZUMPE : We have 11 children . @(Footage-of-Ben-Zum) @!LAGATTUTA : @(Voiceover) And Suzannah was n't the only Zumpe who ran away . Of the 11 Zumpe members , only @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ . @!Mr-ZUMPE : And the others chose a different way for the -- for now . @(Footage-of-Suzanna) @!LAGATTUTA : @(Voiceover) Now Suzannah has a new family , ex-Bruderhof members . @!Ms-ZUMPE : I 'm very , very happy . I 'm happy living here . @(Footage-of-Ben-and) @!LAGATTUTA : @(Voiceover) As for Ben and Marianna , there has been no contact . @!Ms-ZUMPE : I have called my parents several times in the past year and they refused to talk to me. @!LAGATTUTA : Now what happens ? Do you get them on the phone or ... @!Ms-ZUMPE : Well , I call and then the -- the secretary there says , ' Well , hold on . I 'll -- I 'll get them . ' And then they put on you hold for a real long time . And then they say ' If you wish to contact your parents , write a letter . They do n't want to talk to you . ' @!LAGATTUTA : And if she phoned you today ... @!Mr-ZUMPE : I would gladly take the phone call . @!Mrs-ZUMPE : Yes . @(Footage-of-Suzanna) @!LAGATTUTA @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to connect with her parents once more ... @!Ms-ZUMPE : ( On phone ) You do n't know me at all . @(Footage-of-Ramon-S) @!LAGATTUTA : @(Voiceover) ... and you 'll meet the Bruderhof 's public enemy number one . What do you think the Bruderhof leadership thinks of you today ? @!Mr-RAMON-SENDER : Oh , I think I 'm the devil incarnate . @(Photo-of-Zavery-Se) @!LAGATTUTA : @(Voiceover) He lost more than he ever thought possible . @(Announcements) 
##221760 AFTERMATH @(Footage-of-Empire-) @!DOW : ( Voiceover ) Eighty-six stories above New York City ... @!Mr-BEN-MINTZ : ( Voiceover ) Matthew likes to talk to people , and he -- he asked -- he asked this man , ' Where was he from ? ' And the man said , ' From the Middle East . ' @!DOW : ( Voiceover ) Matthew Gross and Ben Mintz are still standing with Abu Kamal. @!Mr-MINTZ : ( Voiceover ) He asked Matthew if he was Italian or American . Matthew said , ' I 'm American . ' And then the man said , ' Oh , well , Ame -- you know , you Americans , you 're so nice , you know . You 're so nice . America is such a nice place . ' @(Footage-of-America) @!DOW : ( Voiceover ) Minutes before 5 PM ... @!Mr-HECTOR-MENDEZ : My wife was here with me , then I moved to this side . I wanted to see the Statue of Liberty . qwq @ ( Footage-of-Mendez ; @!DOW : ( Voiceover ) Hector Mendez was with his wife @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ right out onto the deck . It was unbelievably windy and we were laughing . @(Photo-of-Cafaro-fa) @!DOW : ( Voiceover ) Ellen Cafaro and her family were stealing one last look at New York 's skyline ; so was Chris Burmeister. @!Mr-RUSS-CAFARO : Everybody was having a good time and just enjoying the sights , really . @(Footage-of-viewing) @!DOW : ( Voiceover ) The observation deck was packed with nearly 200 people . Matthew Gross finished his conversation with Abu Kamal. @!Mr-MINTZ : He walked away from us and I -- it could n't have been very long before -- before he started shooting after that . @(Footage-of-Empire-) @!Mrs-CAFARO : ( Voiceover ) I was holding Alex 's hand and everyone else was behind us . And I heard a pop sound . @(Footage-of-observa) @!Mr-MARIO-CARMONA : ( Through Translator ) It sounded like this ( snaps fingers ) . @(Home-video-of-chil) @!Mr-MENDEZ : Then I saw a lady go down , fall down . @(Home-video-of-obse) @!Mrs-CAFARO : ( Voiceover ) Pop , pop , pop . Pop , pop , pop , pop . @(Aerial-footage-of-) @!DOW : ( Voiceover ) Unbelievably , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ 's home video . @(Home-video-of-shoo) @!DOW : You saw the man with the gun ? @!Mr-MENDEZ : Yeah . The -- the moment my daughter is coming to me , and then the guy is shooting , you know ? Unidentified Girl 1 : I was scared . I was crying . @!Mr-MENDEZ : ' Go , go , go inside -- inside . ' Then when she go inside , I started moving and the guy moved to me , pop . @(Home-video-of-shoo) @!DOW : ( Voiceover ) Mario Carmona was near Abu Kamal when he started shooting . @!Mr-CARMONA : ( Through Translator ) His eyes were just completely cold . It seemed like his soul was empty . @!DOW : Did you see the man ? @!Mr-JACOB-SCHAAD : Oh , sure , yeah . He was very close . @(Home-video-of-shoo) @!DOW : Now roughly how far away ? I 'm -- I 'm -- I 'm going to back up . You tell me ... @!Mr-SCHAAD : Stop . @!DOW : Stop ? @!Mr-SCHAAD : Yeah , he was like this . @!DOW : You were this close @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in the eye as he -- as he pulled the trigger ? @!Mr-SCHAAD : Yes , I looked into the gun . @(Home-video-of-shoo) @!Mrs-CAFARO : ( Voiceover ) The people rushing towards us -- I have just this concept of just bulging eyes . That 's it , like terror . @!Mr-CAFARO : And I felt as though we were going to be trampled . And I remember yelling to all the kids I went to just to get down . Unidentified Boy : So we just all hitted the ground so we would n't get shot , and all the bullets were flying past us. @(Home-video-of-shoo) @!Mrs-CAFARO : ( Voiceover ) I was standing there . And you do n't know what to do , where to go . @!Mr-SETH-GOLDSAMT-@ : Do we get down on the ground ? Do we run ? Unidentified Girl 2 : I was shaking so much . @!Mrs-CAFARO : Helpless . @!Mr-CAFARO : Helpless . @(Footage-of-Empire-) @!Mrs-CAFARO : ( Voiceover ) Trapped in this small space 86 stories up . @!DOW : ( Voiceover ) Abu Kamal , brandishing the .380 Beretta he bought @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ what he called his charter of honor . @(Home-video-of-the-) @!Mr-GERARD-GUNTNER- : ( Voiceover ) When I got to the corner I saw this -- this carnage . @!DOW : What did you see ? @!Mr-GUNTNER : Just bodies and blood . It was -- pr -- I had never seen anything like it . @(Home-video-of-shoo) @!Mr-MINTZ : ( Voiceover ) I was down on the ground and I walked to my right . Chris was right down on the ground on his back . And I -- I looked the other way and Matthew was the same way , and he was also on his back . @(Footage-of-towel-w) @!Mr-GUNTNER : ( Voiceover ) There were towels there . I rolled a towel up , propped his head and compressed the two towels on his head trying to stop the bleeding . @(Home-video-of-shoo) @!Mr-MINTZ : ( Voiceover ) I remember just like -- like screaming their names and trying to get responses . And I -- and I was n't really getting any . @!DOW : ( Voiceover ) Not far from Chris and Matthew there was another severe casualty . @!Mr-CAFARO @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ front of us was an older gentleman laying face down , right on his face . And he was bleeding a lot . @!Mr-MINTZ : I looked at him and it was the same guy that -- that we had spoken to beforehand . @(Photo-of-Abu-Kamal) @!DOW : ( Voiceover ) It was Abu Kamal . Lieutenant ROGER PARRINO ( New York Police Department ) : ( Voiceover ) On the 86th floor he fired eight rounds . @!DOW : He fired eight rounds ? W ... @!Lt-PARRINO : And with the eight rounds , he -- he basically hit six people and himself . @(Home-video-of-shoo) @!DOW : ( Voiceover ) But adding to the chaos , most people did n't know the shooter had shot himself . @!Mr-CAFARO : But I thought , maybe this guy 's reloading somewhere and he 's going to just step out from a corner , start firing again . @!Mr-MINTZ : And nobody knew if there was one shooter , if there were two shooters . So they were -- people were very scared . Unidentified Police Officer : Let 's go . Hey , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ( Footage-of-ambulan Unidentified Reporter 1 : ( Voiceover ) Gunfire at the Empire State Building this afternoon . At least two people have been shot on the observation deck ... Unidentified Reporter 2 : ( Voiceover ) We had no idea why this lone gunman opened fire , shooting ... Unidentified Reporter 3 : ( Voiceover ) In a matter of seconds , the crowded observation deck on the 86th floor of the ... @!DOW : ( Voiceover ) Abu Kamal and his victims were rushed to Bellevue Hospital in New York City . Later that night Abu Kamal died . @!Dr-WALLACE-CARTER- : ( Voiceover ) Mr. Gross had a gunshot wound to the head . His injury was severe ; it was definitely life-threatening. @(Footage-of-person-) @!Mr-MINTZ : ( Voiceover ) One of the things I did in my mania was to call Matthew 's father . You know , I said , ' There 's been a shooting and Matthew was shot and Chris was shot . ' @!Mr-PETER-GROSS-@1F : I said , ' Is it serious ? ' He said , ' Yes , very . ' He said @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ( Footage-of-highway Unidentified Reporter 4 : ( Voiceover ) One man had blood dripping down his face , and then another guy ... @!Mr-GROSS : ( Voiceover ) It was incredible , unbelievable driving into the city and seeing -- it was a beautiful , clear afternoon -- and seeing the Empire State Building , which you do on the way in from Montclair all the way in . Reporter 4 : ( Voiceover ) One person is dead , seven are wounded ... @!Mr-GROSS : We were just panicked . We were listening to the radio . We were -- it 's a ride I 'll never forget . qwq @ ( Footage-of-New-Yor Reporter 4 : ( Voiceover ) It was a bloody scene . Now after people heard the ... @!Mr-GROSS : That 's how we found out . When we got here we did n't know for sure if Chris was alive or dead . We did n't know for sure if Matt was alive or dead . @(Photos-of-victims-) @!DOW : ( Voiceover ) Who lived or who died came down to a matter of a moment @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , he shot me . The bullet actually went in here , came out again and re-entered the neck here and -- and -- and went out again here . @!Mr-CARMONA : ( Through Translator ) The bullet went through here and came out in the back of my arm . @!DOW : He shot you in your right leg ? @!Mr-MENDEZ : Yeah . Boy : Dear God , please let this never happen to my family . Amen . @(Footage-of-Cafaro-) @!DOW : ( Voiceover ) Crouching just 10 feet from the gunman , the entire Cafaro family survived . Hours after the shooting Matthew Gross was in a coma , clinging to life . But Chris Burmeister died that afternoon on the 86th floor . 