
##5995 20:00-21:00 PM , From NPR News , this is ALL THINGS CONSIDERED . I ? m Robert Siegel . This evening , many public television stations will broadcast the first part of a new documentary that explores the impact of childhood cancer on five families in the Midwest . A Lion in the House drew critical praise when it premiered at the Sundance Film Festival earlier this year . The four-hour film takes an unflinching look at a subject that many viewers may find uncomfortable . From member station , WCPN , David C. Barnett reports . @!DAVID-C-BARNETT-re : In many respects , Tim Woods is a typically teenager . He has endless energy , an easy smile and a need to be noticed . @(Soundbite-of-A-Lio) @!Mr-TIM-WOODS-@1Ame : I like the attention . I honestly can say I love the attention . Because before I got sick , I wasn ? t hardly getting any attention . Now I get all the attention and I like it . @!BARNETT : As we meet him , Tim ? s getting treatment for Hodgkin ? s Lymphoma . On this @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ wants to stabilize Tim ? s weight loss by inserting a plastic feeding tube in his nose . Tim rejects the idea and gets some sympathy from a couple of nurses . Unidentified Woman 1 : He has his image to uphold . Tim has his image . He don ? t want to walk around with that . Unidentified Woman 2 : This is very typical for a teenager to go through putting a feeding tube down there and to have to deal with it on an everyday basis . @!BARNETT : But he finally agrees to the procedure . Almost immediately , Tim throws up . qwq @ ( Soundbite-of-A-Lio Unientified Man : Just keep swallowing . @!Mr-TY-BURR-@1Film- : Tim has done his level best to joke about it , to push it away and not take it seriously . @!BARNETT : Ty Burr , film critic for the Boston Globe , says that after the procedure , Tim is a completely different person . @!Mr-BURR : In that moment when they ? re putting the feeding tube up and he vomits , it ? s a humiliating moment @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ him and it ? s a crucial moment in our understanding of him . And , you know , if you didn ? t have that would his maturity , his growing , in later scenes make total sense ? Well , you know , it ? s arguable . Those are the decisions you make . @!BARNETT : Those decisions weren ? t easy , says Julia Reichert , co-writer and director of A Lion in the House . @!Ms-JULIA-REICHERT- : There were times when we were holding the camera or the mic and we were crying or we were trembling . When one of the kids , a teenager , was being rushed to the ICU , I remember thinking this child is very likely going to die right in front of the camera in the next half and hour . We were terribly scared . But then we looked at his father , who was standing right there , and then later his mother , they didn ? t look scared . They kept going , in other words . So were we going to put the camera @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ just kept going just like they did . @!BARNETT : Speaking after the documentary ? s premiere at the Sundance Film Festival , Reichert ? s husband , Steven Bognar , said that he and his wife did set some rules . @!Mr-STEVEN-BOGNAR-@ : The families had the right to tell us to stop filming at any time . They could ask us to turn off the camera and we agreed that we wouldn ? t try to talk them back into letting us continue to film . Given that ground rule , it was not the hard days that they asked us not to film , it was the days that they just felt lousy or they had bad hair . When one of the kids was dying , Julia went back to the parents and said , look , are you sure you want us to keep filming ? And they say , yeah , you ? re part of this now and you need to be with us through whatever is going to happen . @!BARNETT : But when you become so much a part of the experience @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ How do you remain objective ? @!Mr-BOGNAR : We ? re trying to tell a true story as we reported it . I don ? t know that we ? re objective . @!BARNETT : Back home in Ohio , Steven Bognar says to keep the stories balanced , the filmmakers brought in other eyes and ears . @!Mr-BOGNAR : This film took five years to edit . We shot 525 hours of tape . And in that process , we didn ? t ever just rely on ourselves . We had a great editing team , we had consulting editors , we did test screenings again and again and again . We showed it to professionals . And we never assumed that we were right in making our editing choices . @!BARNETT : It took a total of eight years to make this documentary and it ? s not the first time that the two filmmakers have devoted so much of their lives to a single project . Bognar ? s 1996 documentary , Personal Belongings , also took eight years to finish . And Reichert ? s 1983 Oscar-nominated @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that A Lion in the House falls into the classic fly on the wall documentary style of Frederick Weissman , where the filmmaker remains largely invisible . @!Mr-BURR : Of course it ? s not totally objective . They ? re getting their shots and they ? re making their edits and they ? re telling the story they want to tell . But the conceit is that you ? re seeing unvarnished reality as close as they can get it . I think it ? s a remarkably brave film . I went into it , as anybody goes into it , four hours of kids with cancer . It ? s not a movie your look forward to and yet you come out a changed person . @(Soundbite-of-A-Lio) @!Ms-MARIETHA-WOODS- : Why do you think I drink this stuff ? To keep my mind off stuff . That ? s why when I drink on certain weekends , when I go out and have fun with my friends , I ? m not thinking about stuff . I ? m not down . I ? m not sitting at home @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ I think , or I ? m trying to make myself to have fun . @!BARNETT : The idea for A Lion in the House came from the head oncologist at Cincinnati Children ? s Hospital . Bognar and Reichert were given complete access to the facility and the hospital had no editorial say over the final film , but it did help the filmmakers contact families for the story . @!Mr-BOGNAR : And a lot of families said , no , we don ? t want to be in a movie while we facing this . But a couple of dozen were interested and we met with and talked to somewhere between 12-15 families . We actually started filming eight families briefly and then we really connected with the five who are in the film . @!BARNETT : One of the parents who hit it off with Bognar and Reichert was Marietha Woods , Tim ? s mother , who says it didn ? t feel like the filmmakers were following her around for so long . @!Ms-WOODS : It seemed like a day or two or three because everything @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , you know , as far as the cameras and the mics . It was hard for me to focus on that because I was too busy trying to listen to what the doctors were saying . It was kind of wild for a minute . @!BARNETT : In more ways than one . Just before the filmmakers got the call suggesting the story , Reichert ? s own daughter had finished treatment for Hodgkin ? s Lymphoma . Reichert says she hesitated before deciding to go through it all over again . @!Ms-REICHERT : You know , I was a mom who sat by my daughter as she got sicker and sicker , threw up , went to the emergency room . Did all those things because she had cancer . And for a whole year , my whole life was focused on being her mother . Okay , so I knew what it was like for all those moms. @!BARNETT : All of those moms and their families were flown by the producers to Park City , Utah , for the film ? s debut at Sundance . And @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , got to see the final film . @!Ms-WOODS : And that was my first time seeing it on the big screen so that was hard . And then that ? s when we got the news about Julia so that was even harder to deal with . @!BARNETT : Just before the premiere of A Lion in the House , Julia Reichert was diagnosed with cancer . After the screening she flew back to Ohio to begin chemotherapy . @!Ms-REICHERT : Even though I don ? t have any hair now , or any eyebrows or eye lashes , I think I actually look healthier now than I looked to a lot of people back then . @!BARNETT : Reichert says the families to whom she had devoted so much time in the movie now turn their attention to her . Marietha Woods stays in touch and she ? s glad more people will get to see A Lion in the House and understand that it ? s not just a film about suffering and death . @!Ms-WOODS : And I just hope that this movie comes away with everybody @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ alone . Because I never knew kids got sick like that . I thought cancer was a grown people ? s thing . @!BARNETT : From NPR News , I ? m David C. Barnett in Cleveland . 
##6198 O'REILLY : Thanks for staying with us . I 'm Bill O'Reilly . In the " Factor Follow-up " segment tonight , all throughout modern history , movies have been used to make political points , from Charlie Chaplin to the war movies during World War II to Nazi propaganda . Films can carry a very powerful message . This year , a trio of gay-themed movies were honored at the Golden Globes , and the media could not have been more kind to " Brokeback Mountain , " for example , giving the flick an enormous amount of free publicity . Now I believe the film was made to mainstream gay life . Nothing wrong with that , in my opinion . But I think the film 's intent should be up front . I also believe that most Americans are n't real interested in seeing stuff like that . @!FOX-News-entertain# @(BEGIN-VIDEOTAPE) @!BILL-MCCUDDY-FOX- : Are gay-themed movies out of touch with middle America ? @!DONALD-SUTHERLAND , : What ? @!MCCUDDY : Gay -- gay-themed movies out of touch with middle America ? @!SUTHERLAND : What do you @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ do you think ? @!MCCUDDY : I do n't think they are . @!SUTHERLAND : You must think . @!UNIDENTIFIED-FEMAL : Any time that , you know , homosexuality can be embraced in our day to day lives , I think that 's a good sign . @!UNIDENTIFIED-MALE : I do n't think Middle America really cares . They 'll either go or they wo n't , and the box office will kind of tell you that . But I think with cable , I think with the Internet , I think with television in general , people in middle America are a lot more hip than people think they are . @!MCCUDDY : Can I ask you a question ? The truth is you wo n't talk to me. @!TIM-ROBBINS-ACTOR : Not you . Not you . @(END-VIDEOTAPE) O'REILLY : All right . He does n't want to talk to us . With us now is Bill McCuddy and from Seattle , film critic and radio talk guy , Michael Medved . Now Michael , the " Brokeback Mountain " deal , it 's made $31 million or something . @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ movie . And it 's a fine movie , I guess . I have n't seen it . I 'm afraid of gay cowboys . I 'm afraid of all cowboys . I 'm from Long Island , all right ? Cowboys frighten me in every regard . Ever since Clinton Eastwood shot down everybody , I 'm - - it 's too much . @!MICHAEL-MEDVED-FI : Right . You 're not ready for the tough lights ( ph ) . O'REILLY : Believe me , I 'll never be ready . But I think this has a good chance to win best picture of the year . And I think that if it does , there will be a large political component to the award . Am I wrong ? @!MEDVED : No , you 're completely correct . And look at the way they 're promoting this . They 're promoting this and saying love is a force of nature . And see , this is a very , very insidious kind of message , and I 'll tell you why . Because if love is a force of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the movie , that ends up destroying two marriages , because both the cowboys are married to women , if love is a force of nature , then that same argument can be used to justify any kind of extramarital love . And my problem with the movie , and I think one of the reasons that there is a lot of resistance to this , is not just that it 's pro-homosexual . It clearly is . But it 's also anti-marriage . It suggests that you 've got to follow your heart and you can forget about those obligations and promises you made . O'REILLY : OK . But look , Michael , the guy who made the movie , Ang Lee , he 's a brilliant director . He has a right to make any movie he wants to make . @!MEDVED : Absolutely . O'REILLY : I mean , look , if he wants to think that this is great and all that , this guy can do this all day long . It 's America . But I think it 's got to be labeled as @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ is what 's in play here , as you just did . That has n't happened . @!MEDVED : No , it has n't at all . And one of the things that was disturbing to me about the Golden Globe awards , is it was n't just this one movie . It was winner for best actor , which was Philip Seymour Hoffman for " Capote . " It was the winner for best actress , Felicity Huffman , playing a guys who 's going to have a sex change operation in " Transamerica . " And you see , some of the other big movies that won were movies like " Syriana . " Most people do n't know that " Syriana , " which is very anti- American -- anti-American imperialism movie , that glorifies suicide bombing . It was made by money from a group called Participant Pictures , which is a specifically political group that is trying to send messages in movies . They put money into " Syriana . " They put money into ... O'REILLY : Are you telling me George Clooney has something @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ look bad ? Are you telling me that , Michael ? I 'm outraged . @!MEDVED : Is n't that unbelievable ? O'REILLY : It is. @!MEDVED : But the same group funded " North Country " with Charlize Theron . Very political movie . It funded also " Good Night and Good Luck , " again with George Clooney . O'REILLY : George Clooney. @!MCCUDDY : But Bill , Michael , all movies are about something . I mean , the good ones are , unless they have Pauly Shore in them . And they have to have some kind of redeeming social message . And ... O'REILLY : Why do they have to have some kind of redeeming social message ? @!MCCUDDY : Well , it would be nice if they ... @(CROSSTALK) @!MEDVED : It would be nice if they entertain people . @!MCCUDDY : Of course . They have to entertain . If they 're not entertaining ... O'REILLY : But look , look . This is a free society . This is a free society and you go and you see what you want to see @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ But should n't all of these movies -- if Michael just said -- he just told us something we did n't know . @!MCCUDDY : Right . O'REILLY : That there 's this group that 's funding anti-American stuff . I do n't think " Good Night and Good Luck " is anti-American. @!MCCUDDY : They 're not going to put that in the poster . They 're not going to say ... O'REILLY : But should n't the -- should n't the media be saying this is why the movie is out there . That 's all I want . @!MCCUDDY : Well , if you want the media to cover things differently , that 's fine . O'REILLY : Yes . How about with some honesty ? Remember that ? @!MCCUDDY : Well , and also do n't forget that film makers do n't decide exactly how their movie is going to be marketed . That 's something the studio does , and the studio goes after certain kinds of press and pursues things differently . They 're on damage control over on " Brokeback Mountain " now . @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ way . I mean , they 're taking some critical acclaim that it 's gotten in the middle of the country and putting those in the ads . They 've added the women that Michael was talking about . The two men are married , and they 're adding them to the television commercials . Trying to broaden the appeal . O'REILLY : They probably did n't think this was going to be a big money maker . They just did it to promote gay behavior as mainstream . @!MCCUDDY : The coming out -- coming out , maybe . It 's adding more -- it 's plateauing out . So it 's doing better than you 'd think . Thirty-two million bucks in 39 days is not bad . @!MEDVED : Yes , but ... O'REILLY : Go ahead , Michael . @!MEDVED : It is -- it is n't bad , but it 's a fraction of the money that , say , a movie like " Chronicles of Narnia " has made , which is about a tenth of what " Narnia " has made . What 's @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ liberal message movies , if as Bill says , they 're rightly advertised . The problem there are no movies on the balance side . There are no conservative message movies . O'REILLY : " King Kong . " @!MEDVED : I would challenge -- how is that a conservative message movie ? O'REILLY : H 's a heterosexual. @!MEDVED : It 's bestiality . O'REILLY : He unleashed his inner monkey . @!MCCUDDY : I wanted her to run -- Michael , I wanted her to run away with the monkey , and I do n't know what I 'm talking about . O'REILLY : All I know , you guys -- all I know is , if they had put Adrian Brody on the island instead of the babe , they would have won an Academy Award . If he had grabbed Adrian , you know ? Adrian . @!MEDVED : It still may end up getting nominated for some Academy Awards . But the point is that , look , there ought to be balance in this country . The country is evenly split , liberal and conservative @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ once in awhile ... O'REILLY : Not in Hollywood . @!MEDVED : They ought to reflect the public , and they ought to appeal to red state America . O'REILLY : I may move out there and start No Spin Pictures . All right . Good job . They hate you , though . @!MCCUDDY : Thanks to you . O'REILLY : That 's all right . @!MCCUDDY : I was embedded for you and I took your bullets . O'REILLY : They hate you . @!MCCUDDY : I took your bullets , O'Reilly . O'REILLY : Michael , as always . Next , the Supreme Court hands American parents a victory , well , kind of . Right back with it . @(COMMERCIAL-BREAK) 
##6199 O'REILLY : More on this later on . But first the lead story tonight . More threats from bin Laden . In an audiotape broadcast by al Qaeda 's best friend , al Jazeera , the terrorist bin Laden says al Qaeda is planning a new attack on American soil . Joining us now from Washington , Michael Scheuer , former head of the CIA 's bin Laden unit and author of the bestselling book " Imperial Hubris . " @!Mr-Scheur-you-kno# @!MICHAEL-SCHEUER-P : What he 's doing here , Mr. O'Reilly , is again , as he did with the Europeans , giving the Americans one last warning before he attacks us . And he 's very much speaking not only to Americans , but to the Islamic world . Warning your enemy before you attack him is very much a tradition in Islam from the prophet to the times when Saladin ( ph ) was fighting the Crusaders , he would warn them , he would offer them a truce , he would try to go the extra mile before attacking him . So I think it @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ bin Laden is speaking , because I 've heard other people today already saying that he 's offering a truce because it 's a sign of weakness , because we 're beating him . And I think that 's pretty far from the truth . O'REILLY : But does n't he have to save face in the Arab world after the drone attack in Pakistan and the Pakistani authorities say that a couple of big-shot al Qaedas were knocked out . It looks like the insurgents in Iraq are fighting al Qaeda . It looks like they are taking it on the chin . Does n't he have to do something to rally his terror forces ? @!SCHEUER : I think , Mr. O'Reilly , in total , we 've overestimated the damage we 've done in -- to al Qaeda . And certainly in Iraq , I think a lot has been made of one or two instances of conflict between one set of fighters and al Qaeda fighters . But in the bigger sense , it 's always been a belief in the American government that if someone does @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ 's going to , that he 'll lose support in the Islamic world . And of course , nothing happens in the Islamic world unless God wills it . If there is a failure , it 's not exactly the failure of a person to carry out an attack . It 's that God 's will did n't -- was n't in favor of the attack at that moment . So we will very often try to put our way of thinking on to the enemy 's way of thinking . O'REILLY : I got it . So there 's never a setback for bin Laden ? Well ... @!SCHEUER : Well , there 's always ... O'REILLY : It 's always Allah saying for whatever reason " Well , I do n't really want it to happen now . " @!SCHEUER : That 's exactly right , sir . That 's what gives them their steadfastness ... O'REILLY : Right . @!SCHEUER : ... and their determination . O'REILLY : Was n't our fault . It 's that Allah just did n't sign onto murdering babies today . @!SCHEUER : @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that might be a little strong , but I think it 's ... O'REILLY : Well , but - I mean , you say it 's a little strong , but are n't the al Qaedas murdering babies today ? Are they not doing that ? @!SCHEUER : Well , sure , sir , but I think we only bring that up because we somehow have convinced ourselves that war does n't involve killing , and killing innocents . O'REILLY : No , no , no , no , but I 'm not bringing it up for that . @!SCHEUER : No . O'REILLY : I 'm bringing it up to be - to show the Islamic world and those Muslims who are watching us right now , the inconsistency of their thought that , if there was a - you know , a God that was actually wanting them to do whatever , how could he possibly want them to kill babies on any day ? You know what I 'm talking about ? @!SCHEUER : No , I do n't quite follow it , sir , because I -- @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ life is sacred in all instances , war , whether it 's conducted by Americans or by British or by Chinese or by Muslims , war is just war . And it kills innocent people . And that 's the way it is . O'REILLY : But there 's a way to wage it . And the way that the al Qaedas are waging it is by killing civilians . They 're not waging war in a conventional way , as you know . Now ... @!SCHEUER : Well , they are waging war in the conventional way that we waged war until 1945 , sir , which is the last war we 've won . Once we stopped waging war in the American fashion , we have n't won a war since . O'REILLY : Well , I mean , that 's a good debate for another day , but I think that Americans in war wear uniforms and fight for a flag . Al Qaedas do not . And they attack civilian targets . And I 'm not aware that Americans have done that in any of our wars @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ more . We had Dick Cheney in here talking to Neil cavuto today . @!SCHEUER : Yes , sir . O'REILLY : Cheney comes in . And number one , do you believe that he 's the chief architect in the war on terror ? Do you believe Cheney is the chief guy ? @!SCHEUER : I think the president 's the chief guy , sir , but I certainly think that Mr. Cheney has an awfully big role in both Iraq and the war on terror . O'REILLY : OK . Now he comes in very cool and confident as he usually is when -- he does n't do a lot of media , but when you see him , he 's cool and confident . And he basically says , look , we could get attacked , but we have done a tremendous amount of damage to al Qaeda . This is Dick Cheney saying this to Neil Cavuto . Do you believe that ? @!SCHEUER : No , sir . He 's whistling past the graveyard , sir . They have a body count of how many people @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ have had an idea of how big al Qaeda was , or is . And so when Mr. Cheney says that , it 's simply to me a sign of panic , because if al Qaeda attacks us again in the United States , the United States has absolutely nothing to respond against unless we 're willing to take out a city like Riyadh or Cairo . The president and the vice president and Mr. Clinton before them play a very dangerous game here , because if we are attacked again , what do we respond against ? And to think that somehow we 're winning this war is really to fly in the face of reality , sir . O'REILLY : Is there anything we can do to win it ? @!SCHEUER : Yes , sir . We certainly have to kill more of the enemy . That 's the first -- the first step . O'REILLY : Any way we can ? @!SCHEUER : Anywhere we can , whenever we can , without a great deal of concern for civilian casualties . As I said , war is war @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Zawahiri to dinner were not friends of the United States . O'REILLY : All right , Mr. Scheuer , always a pleasure to talk with you . Thank you very much for taking the time . @!SCHEUER : It 's always my pleasure , sir . Thank you . O'REILLY : Next on the rundown , most Republicans are very worried about terrorism , but most Democrats say they are not . Tony Snow and Juan Williams with analysis , moments away . @(COMMERCIAL-BREAK) @(NEWSBREAK) 
##6294 O'REILLY : Thanks for staying with us . I 'm Bill O'Reilly . In the " Factor Follow Up " segment tonight , accused wife and baby killer Neil Entwistle is now in custody here in the USA after being extradited from Great Britain . Geraldo Rivera has some thoughts on that and also on Dick Cheney 's dilemma . He joins us now from New York City , where he 's just finished his syndicated program " Geraldo at Large . " All right . So Entwistle , is this thing as cut and dry as it looks ? @!GERALDO-RIVERA-HO : I think so . He landed at about 5:20 Eastern Time at an Air Force base . He 'll be arraigned tomorrow at 2 p.m . The state is very convinced , reading the 200-odd pages in the affidavits supporting the search warrants of his computer and his home , they think they have a lead pipe cinch here . They think they 've got this guy . Not only did he have this bizarre life , this dark secret life and no visible -- visible @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ opportunity to kill his wife and baby . His DNA is on the -- on the .22-caliber pistol seized at the father-in-law 's -- the stepfather-in-law 's house . Rachel 's DNA is on the barrel where he allegedly put the gun almost on her hairline before pulling the trigger . It really -- he made conflicting statements to the cops . He fled the scene . He refused to come back for their -- the burial of his wife and baby . I think this is Scott Peterson second . His alibi is just as preposterous as Scott Peterson 's alibi , this fertilizer salesman who said he was out fishing on Christmas eave . Another -- another slam-dunk here . O'REILLY : Yes . All right . You reference -- you reference a dark side , and you know , we hear Internet stuff . What is that all about ? @!RIVERA : Well , he was desperate for money . The guy could n't get a job in England . That 's where he and Rachel met . He alleged because he had this cockney accent that the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to the new world and he could n't get a job here either , apparently . So he got involved in these various pyramid schemes involving the Internet . Soft core porn . He had something called the Big Penis Manual that he was trying to sell online , another fake thing that he was trying to market . All of these things collapsed in the days leading up to the rental of the new house . And so he had this house and he was paying $2,700 a month rent for it . He had $6,000 he paid on credit for the furniture . He had a new BMW that he was leasing for over $500 a month . He had zero money . He literally did n't have a dime to his name . So he had all that financial pressure . Plus , he was evidently sexually frustrated . He was searching the Internet , not only these dark porn sites but also sites on how to kill people and how to commit suicide with a knife . So it 's pretty clear that this guy has painted @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ evidence that , looking at it from the other side , a defense attorney might be able to challenge is the fact that the pistol that has his DNA on the grip was used by him previously for target shooting . So his lawyer could allege that his DNA got on the pistol in a benign or innocent way . And then the stepfather also admits that he used that pistol the day after Entwistle allegedly killed Rachel and Lillian -- baby Lillian for target practice . So the defense , the legal aid attorney that , you know , the state will now be paying for his defense , of course , can allege that they have contaminated the DNA evidence . But I think there 's so much more . @(CROSSTALK) O'REILLY : And they got DNA Of the murdered wife , as well . OK. @!RIVERA : It 's brain stuff ( ph ) . O'REILLY : So we know all about this guy now . He 's back in the USA . He goes through the process . Life in prison in the Bay State . You @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ 's probably how it 's going to play out . Now ... @!RIVERA : They would not have extradited him from England . You know , I hear some people saying , well , maybe the feds can charge him with capital murder . O'REILLY : No. @!RIVERA : But the British authorities would never have allowed him to be extradited to a country where the death penalty was a possibility . So ... O'REILLY : They do n't have the death penalty . @!RIVERA : Maybe he 'll commit suicide . Maybe now he 'll follow through on his promise to commit suicide . O'REILLY : All right . Dick Cheney . So now , I 'm going to warn you Geraldo , you go -- you have a tendency to go off the deep end on these political stories . You 're the best in the world at the crime stories , but once we get into political stories , then you just evaporate now . Now OK ? Dick Cheney . Go . @!RIVERA : Your audience is ready to watch me go up in smoke here . @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ know kind of what you 're going to say and I 'm almost pleading with you to not say it , but I know you 're Geraldo and you 're going to say it anyway . Go . @!RIVERA : I believe that the vice president and his staff intentionally covered up this story because they knew what a big deal it was . I want you to picture yourself as the vice president . Now it 's Bill O'Reilly or it 's Geraldo Rivera and go hunting with their pals on Saturday and we accidentally shoot our pals . And then we keep it quiet so it does n't make the Sunday morning newspapers , the most read newspaper of the week . O'REILLY : Yes . @!RIVERA : Does n't make " Meet the Press " or Brit Hume 's fine FOX show on Sunday morning . It goes until finally they have so much pressure , 18 hours later , my goodness , if this thing is going to get out , the cover-up story , as always , will be larger than the ... O'REILLY : There @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ . @!RIVERA : I think they are one and the same . I think that when you are the vice president , you let it go for 18 hours -- if Ted Kennedy , after Chappaquiddick , and instead of running away from that also accident , had gone to the authorities or gone to someone , " Help me , help me . You 've got to rescue this woman . " Or if Bill Clinton had , " Oh , my God , I had this terrible incident . And I lost control and I had oral sex with this woman in the Oval Office . " If they had fessed up in both cases , their political lives would not have been destroyed . I believe ... @(CROSSTALK) O'REILLY : I disagree with you on both of those . But you ca n't compare quail hunting ... @!RIVERA : This will haunt the vice president for the rest of his life . O'REILLY : Geraldo , you ca n't compare a quail hunting accident , which at first looks like just a bunch of bruises ... @!RIVERA : @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ No , with Chappaquiddick . Come on . @!RIVERA : I think it was a driving accident . It was a driving accident , Bill . That 's what it was . O'REILLY : Yes . @!RIVERA : We forget . Ted Kennedy did n't mean to ditch the lady in Martha 's Vineyard ... O'REILLY : No . He was intoxicated and he got -- he saved himself and the poor girl drowned . That 's what happened . @!RIVERA : He ... O'REILLY : That 's a lot different than a quail accident , Geraldo . I 've got break it to you . @!RIVERA ; -I----this-# O'REILLY : He 's not going to die , Geraldo. @!RIVERA : This is very , very serious . You ca n't minimize what happened . As soon as that man fell that became international news . The vice president should have fessed up . O'REILLY : I agree with you there . I agree ... @!RIVERA : And all he did was to support all of those people who believe that he 's Darth Vader of secrecy . O'REILLY : All @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ have come right out and said ... @(CROSSTALK) O'REILLY : " Here 's what happened . " But it has no comparison to Chappaquiddick or even the Lewinsky situation . Geraldo Rivera , everybody , there he goes . Never boring , never boring . Moments away , " Bloviating with Bill . " We found an everyday American who likes the ACLU . Uh-oh . That 's next . @(COMMERCIAL-BREAK) 
##6298 @!SNOW : Thanks for staying with us . I 'm Tony Snow in for Bill O'Reilly . In the " Factor Flashback " segment tonight , why is the left having a hard time getting traction , despite the Bush administration being beset with difficult problems ? Bill recently posed the question to two committed liberal Democrats who say they have the formula to reignite the Democratic Party . James Carville and Paul Begala are co-authors of the book " Take it Back : Our Party , Our Country , Our Future . " @(BEGIN-VIDEOTAPE) @!BILL-O'REILLY-HOS : OK . The war on terror , Mr. Carville , all polls show Republicans still are showing a wide margin of acceptance over the Democrats . What do Democrats have to do to convince Americans they are terror warriors ? @!JAMES-CARVILLE-CO : Well , first of all , I think the Democrats have done -- have done pretty good . Whether or not they 'll ever get to parity with the Republicans on the war on terror , is quite another question . But it 's the difference between 30 points @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ : You 're about 15 points behind . @!CARVILLE : That 's -- that 's within a range . I think if they cut that to 10 that 's fine . But there are some issues that they 're going to be way ahead of Republicans on . So ... O'REILLY : Let 's stay with terror . What would you recommend the next president who run -- the next candidate ... @!CARVILLE : First of all , Democrats should correctly point out that they were the first people to advocate the Department of Homeland Security , which President Bush fought . Secondly , the Democrats have been very more active in security , in port protection and things like that . Third , the Democrats -- and most Americans believe that America is stronger , it fights terror better , when it cooperates with other countries as opposed to acting unilaterally as this administration has done . O'REILLY : But that was a loser for John Kerry . @!CARVILLE : I do n't think it was . I do n't think that was the reason Kerry lost at all . @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ have to cooperate with other countries and this , that and the other thing . And obviously , people did n't buy it . @!PAUL-BEGALA-CO-AU : You know what else he said , in fact ? In the book , we call it John Kerry 's finest hour . He went right at President Bush for wimping out at Tora Bora . We had bin Laden , this murderous animal , cornered at Tora Bora . We had the 10th Mountain Division , the most legendary mountain fighters in the world , and Bush wimped out . And Kerry called him on it . Democrats ... O'REILLY : That 's past history . That 's all past history . @!CARVILLE : It 's not past history . @(CROSSTALK) @!BEGALA : Democrats -- it 's part of the history . The reason the man fought -- new attacks , instead of playing checkers in hell with Adolf Hitler , is because Bush let him go at Tora Bora . O'REILLY : It 's not going to help you . It 's not going to help you . @!CARVILLE : It 's a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Laden cornered and did n't make the right decisions . O'REILLY : If you go to Tora Bora in ' 08 that 's a loser . And anybody will say , look , under Clinton -- you can do the same historical thing under Clinton . Al Qaeda grew in ferocity . He could have confronted him . He could have gotten him 15 times . But that 's not going to work . What 's going to work is forward looking , forward looking . @!BEGALA : Which I agree with that , as well . I think you can not let the indictment be unstated . That is the president has made America weaker and not stronger . O'REILLY : And you 're going to prove that how ? @!BEGALA : By making the case . He has neglected the terror -- he walked away from bin Laden in Tora Bora and allowed him to live to be ... O'REILLY : You 're back in Tora Bora again . @!BEGALA : No , no . And today he does not secure our borders , an issue I think you @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ nuclear power plants . O'REILLY : All right . Let 's talk about that . @!BEGALA : Has not secured our chemical plants . Has not secured -- the Democrats are way out ahead on that . That 's my point ... O'REILLY : You can say -- all right . How far out they 're ahead on , I 'm not sure , because I have n't heard one Democrat say anything about securing the border in a meaningful way . So I 'm going to put it to you . Are you going to bring up the border ? Then they 're going to say , well , what are you doing do , Senator Clinton , about securing the border , and you 're going to say ? @!BEGALA : Well , I 'd let Senator Clinton speak for herself . O'REILLY : Well , Mr. Begala ... @(CROSSTALK) O'REILLY : If you let her speak for herself , you 're not going to get an answer . @!BEGALA : Here 's what I think Democrats ought to say . That we have to secure the border first @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ failed us , OK ? Where do you go , the experts . You find out . We need a bigger border patrol , certainly . O'REILLY : Border fence ? @!BEGALA : I 'm open to that , sure . O'REILLY : You 're open to it ? @!BEGALA : I know a lot of Democrats who -- Democrats who you would be surprised to hear that . Second , though , I think this is where I part company with some of my friends that go out and crapshoot ( ph ) . I do n't believe illegal aliens come here for our welfare benefits . I believe they come here for our jobs . O'REILLY : It does n't matter why they come here . @!BEGALA : Yes , it does . That 's how you stop them . You set up a barrier at the border and then a barrier at the job site . My Republican friends want to set up a barrier at the emergency room to tell a 7-year-old girl having an asthma attack she ca n't get treatment . O'REILLY : All right @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ So you 're open to a fence ? You 're open to a fence ? @!BEGALA : Yes . O'REILLY : Are you open to a fence ? @!CARVILLE : Yes . I 'm open -- I 'm for border security . I think that ... O'REILLY : But what does that mean ? @!CARVILLE : Open to a fence . O'REILLY : OK . How about the National Guard ? You open to the guard ? @!CARVILLE : No . Of course not . O'REILLY : The Democratic governor of Arizona just sent her guard to the border . @!CARVILLE : If she -- if she wants to deploy her own guards to protect her own safety , I 'm certainly all for that . I 'm not for federalizing troops to stop borders . I 'm for the border patrol . The governor has charge over her own National Guard . I 'm certainly not ... O'REILLY : You guys are coming off as wishy-washy. @!CARVILLE : I do n't think we 're coming off wishy-washy at all , Bill . @(CROSSTALK) @!CARVILLE : Everybody is wishy-washy . Nobody @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ 're not going to get your person elected in 2008 by bashing Bush . You have got to put forth to the American people what you are going to do . @!CARVILLE : That book has 64 -- 64 different proposals in that book , which I 'd say we counted every one of them because we knew ... O'REILLY : I 'm asking you now and you 've got to tell us . Now , Iraq . All right . So say that it 's a drawdown in Iraq by 2008 . All right ? And the issue is n't as hot as it is now , which I believe will happen . So what are you going to do ? Is that going to be something you discuss or what ? @!BEGALA : Well , it depends on what the situation on the ground is . I think -- I think your prediction is right . O'REILLY : Right . They 'll draw down . @!BEGALA : This is interesting . They will do what the Democrats are calling for , which is a strategic redeployment and drawdown , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ O'REILLY : You 're not a cut and run guy , are you ? @!BEGALA : That is really hypocritical . No . O'REILLY : Are you a cut and run guy ? @!BEGALA : I am a win the war and redeploy . @!CARVILLE : I am for they 've got to decide whether they want to have a country or not . If they do , we 'll help them . If they do n't , we 'll pull out . O'REILLY : So neither of you are cut and runners ? @!BEGALA : No , but neither are the Democrats . O'REILLY : Well , Howard Dean is. @!BEGALA : I do n't think Howard Dean is . I 've talked to him about this , actually , and he is for a proposal that the Center for American Progress has put out . But the president of the United States is going to withdraw troops while he 's attacking Democrats for saying that . @(CROSSTALK) O'REILLY : Here is your problem -- here is your problem . You just ... @!CARVILLE : You say we do n't @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ as we can talk . O'REILLY : But here 's your problem . If you say that Howard Dean is not a cut and runner ... @!BEGALA : Right . O'REILLY : ... I 'm saying my impression , I 'm sure the impression of the audience is that he is . And John Murtha got tremendous traction on the Democratic side by being a cut and runner . You did n't hear the -- outside of Lieberman , anybody criticize him . You guys have got to -- and I 'm looking out for you . I 'm looking out for you . @!CARVILLE : It 's not fair to him either . It really is n't fair to Mr. Murtha either . O'REILLY : He 's a -- he wants to cut and run is what he wants to do . @!BEGALA : That 's not what he said . What he wants to do is redeploy outside of the perimeter . O'REILLY : No , he wants to pull everybody out . @!BEGALA : He wants a broader perimeter -- he wants a broader perimeter in the Middle @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ you know , the president has got 150,000 of our finest young people there without enough body armor , without enough troop protection , and without a plan to win . O'REILLY : OK. @!BEGALA : Democrats are pointing that out . O'REILLY : Again , you 're not going to win 2008 by Bush bashing . It 's not going to happen . @(END-VIDEOTAPE) @!SNOW : Directly ahead , is the party over for one Indiana town ? Its annual Mardi Gras festivities may have gone a bit too far . We 're going to show you the shocking tape when we come back . @(COMMERCIAL-BREAK) 
##6299 TONY @!SNOW , HOST : " The O'Reilly Factor " is on . Tonight , the hate Bush media cheap shots FOX News for landing the first sit down with Dick Cheney after this hunting accident . O'Reilly would n't miss the story . He 'll be here . Neil Entwistle pleads not guilty to murdering his wife and baby . We 'll have analysis . Editors of two student newspapers fear for their lives after running those controversial Muslim cartoons . We 'll talk to them . And Democratic heavyweights James Carville and Paul Begala versus O'Reilly . Caution , you 're about to enter a no-spin zone . " The Factor " begins right now . Hi , I 'm Tony Snow , reporting for Bill O'Reilly , who will join us moments from now for our top story . Thank you for watching " The Factor " tonight . Brit Hume lands the first interview with Vice President Dick Cheney after the hunting accident and FOX News gets cheap shotted for it . Writing in The New York Times , Alessandra Stanley says , " @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ King n CNN to do damage control . Mr. Cheney chose what this administration views as the even more secure location of a FOX News interview . " But the worst cheap shots sound like sour grapes coming from our cable news competitors . CNN anchor Jack Cafferty says it was like Bonnie interviewing Clyde . CNN analyst Paul Begala says it was like Khrushchev giving an interview to Pravda . Predictable , but still unbelievable . Here 's a bit of the Hume-Cheney interview so you can decide if it was the " easy ride " one far left press watchdog called it . qwq @ ( BEGIN-VIDEOTAPE- " @!BRIT-HUME-HOST : It strikes me that you must have known that this was going to be a national story . @!DICK-CHENEY-VICE- : Oh , sure . @!HUME : And it does raise the question of whether you could n't have headed off this beltway firestorm if you had put out the word to the national media , as well to the local newspaper so that they could post it on its website . I mean , in retrospect , would n't @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ 's going to do that ? Are they going to take my word for what happened ? There is , obviously . @!HUME : Well , obviously , you could have put it out in the name of whoever you wanted . I mean , you could put it out in the name of Ms. Armstrong , if you wanted to . Obviously , she 's the one who made the statement . @!CHENEY : Exactly . That 's what we did . We went with Mrs. Armstrong . We had -- she 's the one who put out the statement . And she was the most credible one to do it , because she was a witness . It was n't me in terms of saying here 's what happened . @!CHENEY : Understood . Now the suspicion grows in some quarters that you - that this was an attempt to minimize it by having it first appear in a little paper and appear like a little hunting incident down in the remote corner of Texas . @!CHENEY : There was n't any way this was going to be minimized @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ accurate . I do think what I 've experienced over the years here in Washington is as the media outlet 's have proliferated , speed has become sort of a driving force , lots of times , at the expense of accuracy . And I wanted to make sure we got it as accurate as possible . And I think Catherine was an excellent choice . I do n't know who you could get better as the basic source for the story than the witness who say the whole thing . @(END-VIDEOTAPE) @!SNOW : Joining us now on the phone from South Florida , " The Factor 's " very own Bill O'Reilly . Well , Bill , you saw the interview . You 've also heard a lot of the reaction . Let 's first talk about the fact that we have a lot of people carping about FOX giving him the interview , but you know what ? They all led their newscasts with it . @!BILL-O'REILLY-HOS : Well , you know , it 's -- we 've been reporting on this , Tony , for - you know @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ jealousy among our television competitors because we 're just beating their brains in night after night , day after day . And they have gotten increasingly strident and hysterical . I do n't really care what they say . It does n't matter . It 's a free country . They can say what they want . But I think when you put it all in the same soup , you take the left wing media in the newspaper industry , which is about 75 percent and growing , and then you take in the bitterness on the television side , you know , look , I 'm not here to stick up for Dick Cheney . I think he made a mistake . I think he should have gotten the thing out as soon as possible and said details to come . Here 's what happened . I was involved with an accident . Details to come . I 'm not buying Cheney saying well , we got to get it accurate . I just think that they wanted to manage this story . You know how that goes , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to manage it . And whenever you try to manage it , particularly when you have a hostile media , because they - and I want everybody watching this right now to understand us . These people hate them . You know , Marvin Kalb disagreed last night on " The Factor " with the word hate . I 'm sorry , they hate them . They hate Bush and Cheney . Hate them . And they 're going to go get them , no matter what they have . But the hysteria surrounding the story , once and for all , should illuminate for all our viewers and listeners , all of them , that you are not going to get the fair story from 80 percent of the media . You will get it from FOX . Hume did a very good job . He was respectful , but he was firm . @!SNOW : Yes , I - Bill , I think a lot of times people - some of the critics , I think , wanted somebody to pistol whip the vice president . You and I @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ They wanted to - not pistol whip him . They wanted somebody to humiliate him . And when you interview a president or a vice president , you just -- that 's just - it 's like the protocol . You ca n't do that . You can be firm , you can be direct , but you have to get their statements on the record . You ca n't be saying , well , you 're a liar . Hey , here 's how bad it is , Tony . On one of our competitors ' network last night , they had two individuals saying that Cheney was drunk or possibly drunk . How irresponsible is that ? Now , I 'll tell you ladies and gentlemen , if you hear that , you got to click that off and never watch them again , because there you have defamation , character assassination based on nothing . Pure , unadulterated , unbridled hatred . And I think the folks got to send a message . @!SNOW : Well , I think it 's happening . Look , you see the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ numbers go up when they are subjected to people who act like they 've got their hair on fire . And I got to tell you in many ways , we ought to be sending chocolates or beers or whatever is appropriate to a lot of these folks , because guess what ? They 're sending people our way . O'REILLY : Well , I mean , look , it 's all part of the culture war . It 's all part of the war that we 're in . Now I want to ask you a question . You 've been around Washington for a long time . I do not live there . Was it this bad under Clinton ? @!SNOW : No . O'REILLY : Were they gunning for Clinton like they 're gunning for Bush and Cheney ? @!SNOW : I think if you talk to the Clinton people , they would say yes . But you also remember the poll that they did , a Roper Poll , where 93 percent of the reporters in Washington said that they had voted for Bill Clinton . So @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Bill Clinton . Keep in mind when Bill Clinton did his first interview after Lewinsky , where did he go ? He went to Jim Lehrer . I 'll tell you what . Brit Hume is -- I do n't think we could find another newsman of similar competence of stature in Washington , period . And I think most of the press understands that . O'REILLY : Yes , but they do n't care . You know , they do n't care . They 're going to be snarky , The New York Times , CNN . They 're going to be snarky . And they 're just going to mislead the public . But I also want to make one more thing clear , that Dick Cheney brought a lot of this on himself . @!SNOW : Yes . O'REILLY : Because he will not engage the press at any level . He feels that he does not have an obligation to do that . I feel that public servants elected and given power by the people can choose their avenues , but definitely should be available , you @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ explain what happens , why they make decisions . And Dick Cheney is not available . @!SNOW : Absolutely . No , you 're right , Bill . And Bill O'Reilly , thanks . The final note here is every administration learns this lesson . I 'm sure after the Cheney interview , a lot of people in the White House were saying , eh , that was n't so bad . We 'd like you to vote in the billoreilly.com poll . Here 's the question . What story 's more important ? Al Gore accusing U.S. of mistreating Arabs on U.S. soil ? Or Dick Cheney delaying the accident announcement ? Coming up next on " The Factor , " Neil Entwistle pleads not guilty to murdering his wife and baby . And then his lawyer lashes out and says his client ca n't get a fair trial . That report , when we come back . @(COMMERCIAL-BREAK) @(NEWSBREAK) 
##6394 O'REILLY : " Impact " segment tonight , civil rights vs. animal rights . At U.C. Berkeley , the PETA people arrived on campus , displaying images comparing the treatment of animals to slavery . That did n't go over too well with some black students . @(BEGIN-VIDEO-CLIP) @!UNIDENTIFIED-FEMAL : What they see every day . What they hear every day . Oh , black people the root . What they see on the news . What the bleep is that ? ( INAUDIBLE ) a different image . I do n't -- I 'm not trying to say OK , people should eat meat . I understand you . @(END-VIDEO-CLIP) O'REILLY : With us now , Lauren Lake , an attorney who follows civil rights very closely . A very intense -- images of slavery . It 's like the Holocaust . If you use images of Holocaust , and you 're trying to make a point about something else , no ? @!LAUREN-LAKE-LEGAL : Not having it . Totally despicable . I agree with those students who took a stance against this . For PETA , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ equate cruelty to animals to the enslavement of African-American people is just downright ridiculous and just utterly culturally insensitive . I ca n't believe they even thought they could pull this off . O'REILLY : All right , here 's their statement . " We are not equating animals with African-Americans . We are comparing the oppression of certain groups of people in the past to the oppression of animals today . Just as slavery , anti-Semitism , forced child labor , displacement , and genocide of native Americans , denial of rights for women and other forms of oppression were once accepted , so are the enslavement of animals in laboratories on fur farms and factory farms . Your response ? @!LAKE : Animals are not people . I love animals like the next person , but they are not people . And you have to understand the history to really understand the cultural significance . African-Americans were bread like animals . We were traded like animals . We were n't even counted as a whole person under the law . So in any way to compare , contrast , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , you do n't do that . And for an organization whose main purpose is to get awareness for people for animals , you should be more sensitive to racial issues as well . O'REILLY : Yes . @!LAKE : . before you go and put pictures like that up on a college campus . O'REILLY : Well , I ca n't argue with it . I mean , I think the PETA people are crazy anyway . We had them in here a few years ago . And I asked them your question . I said you 're equating animals with humans . You 're putting them on the same level . And they said that 's right . We feel animals have the same rights that human beings have . And then you get into well , OK , what about a ecology and all that ? Now there 's another comparison being made , which a lot of African- Americans are offended by , gay marriage . You know , you 're denying our rights , you 're denying our civil rights . It 's like the African-American @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to that ? @!LAKE : We say no . Get a grip . That is not the same thing . African- Americans , I 'm telling you what will irk us is to try to equate our struggle to any other struggle like gay rights , the right to marry , that 's a struggle that they 're going through understandably . It has nothing to do with 400 years of systematic oppression , where we were not allowed to read , write , be free , even make our own families . And what kills me is that these same people who want to politicize our struggle , what are they doing to rectify the socioeconomic conditions that are still direct results of that today ? So I know . O'REILLY : Well , a lot of them are liberal . And they would say well , we 're on your side . And we 're trying --- we give money . But here 's their argument . Their argument is that a denial of gay marriage is a denial under the Constitution of the rights of an American citizen @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @!LAKE : Most certainly . O'REILLY : But then they say the denial of the right to vote , a denial of the right to sit in where you want to sit in a lunch counter or on a bus is the same thing as the denial of marriage rights . And you answer ? @!LAKE : My answer is African-Americans are not your poster child . You have your issue . It 's a valid issue . And go forth with it . But us , our struggle as African-Americans , we 're not going to be your poster child for your political agenda . O'REILLY : All right . So you do n't want to be dragged into it . @!LAKE : No . We want to deal with our own issues . We 've got issues like people in Katrina right now , who we have to deal with the African- American based issues , Bill . And we do n't need to be any other person 's poster child when no one 's doing anything to deal with the effect that we live with every day . @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and talk about this Katrina thing with you . @!LAKE : Any time . O'REILLY : Because we may have a - see , we agree on this . The PETA people are crazy , all right . They 're nuts . And the gay people , I do n't think , understand that marriage is a privilege , not a right under the Constitution . Whereas , you know , voting is a right , being able to have lunch where you want is a right . Not a privilege . @!LAKE : It 's a different issue from racial oppression . O'REILLY : It 's different . It 's different . But Katrina now , you think is a racial issue on Katrina , right ? @!LAKE : Oh , I 'm certainly do . O'REILLY : All right , no. @!LAKE : Bring me back , Bill . O'REILLY : Bringing you back next week . @!LAKE : Bring me back . O'REILLY : Bringing you back next week . All right , Ms. Lake . And do n't miss Ms. Lake and I next week on Katrina @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Always a pleasure . Nice to see you . @!LAKE : Great to be here . O'REILLY : Right back with a very disturbing situation . A woman accused of abusing a baby , an action caught on the nanny cam , there it is , is not going to be prosecuted . We 'll tell you why in just a few moments . @(COMMERCIAL-BREAK) 
##6398 BILL O'REILLY , HOST : " The O'Reilly Factor " is on . Tonight , is there an American civil war brewing over illegal immigration ? We will have analysis . @(BEGIN-VIDEO-CLIP) @!UNIDENTIFIED-MALE : We 're getting wind gusts of about 70 to 75 miles per hour . @(END-VIDEO-CLIP) O'REILLY : Experts say more terrible storms are coming to the USA . We 'll look at the data . And a fatal crash on the race car circuit . Caution , you are about to enter a no-spin zone . " The Factor " begins right now . Hi , I 'm Bill O'Reilly . Thank you for watching us tonight . Crunch time on illegal immigration , that is the subject of this evening 's " Talking Points " Memo . There is a civil war brewing in this country between the forces that want open borders , no restrictions on who enters the USA , and those of us who are demanding that the federal government stop millions of people from illegally entering America . Now over the weekend , hundreds of thousands of pro-illegal immigrant @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , saying no to tough enforcement of immigration laws and demanding the USA grant them concessions . It 's clear by this display that millions of Americans support a so-called humane approach to the illegal problem , including amnesty and full benefits for illegals already here . On the other side are millions of Americans who say no to amnesty and no to the continuing border chaos . Thus , you have a very intense difference of opinion . Overwhelmingly , the American media favor as " comprehensive approach " to the problem . That means little punitive action . Writing in The New York Times today , far left columnist Paul Krugman summed that position up . " Basic decency requires that we provide immigrants , once they 're here , with essential health care , education for their children , and more . " Krugman and many on the left are big on those carrots , but short on any sticks . They reject tough enforcement of immigration law . But there is a solution that carries both a stick and a carrot . One , immediately move the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ patrol . If this is done , there 's no need for a $1 billion wall . Illegal crossings would decline drastically . Two , detain anyone caught trying to cross the border illegally and deport them ASAP . No more catch and release . Three , inform businesses that hiring illegal workers will lead to expensive fines first time , prison time for employers second time . Four , allow those illegals already in the USA to register as foreign residents without fear of reprisal . An illegal would have 60 days to do that . Failure to register would be a felony with mandatory prison time . Five , once the foreign resident is registered , he or she would be issued temporary working papers and would have to pay a $3,000 fine for breaking the immigration law . The money would be deducted from paychecks over a three year period . Six , after three years , that foreign resident could apply for citizenship , but such a privilege would not be guaranteed . The applicants would take their place in line behind those who have obeyed the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ would be set up to meet the needs of businesses . Foreign countries could send a list of applicants and a pool would be formed . Any finally , any immigrant evading taxes in the USA would be immediately deported . So there you have it . Comprehensive plan to stop the madness , but Congress not going to do it . Today , the Senate Judiciary Committee approved an amendment that would allow Americans to provide care for illegal aliens while adding more border patrol agents . Same old , same old . Not going to solve the problem . And that 's the Memo . Now for the top story tonight , another view on this explosive situation . Joining us from Irvine , California , Enrique Morones , founder of the Border Angels , who have helped organize this weekend 's rally in Los Angeles . All right , let 's go down my list one by one . National Guard on the border . Are you opposed ? @!ENRIQUE-MORONES-F : Definitely opposed . It 's not for the military , it 's for border patrol . O'REILLY @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ military is to be established to protect the borders of the United States . @!MORONES : Right , but I think that the military the way that it 's established right now is not prepared to handle these issues . We 've seen the failures of the National Guard be involved in the past . Shooting innocent people , something that unfortunately ... O'REILLY : All right , so you do n't have confidence that the U.S. military can do a back-up to the border patrol ? Is that what you 're telling me ? @!MORONES : Absolutely not . We 've seen what 's been going on in Iraq . I think they should concentrate on being a military , a peacekeeping force , but not at the - not being on the border . I think that 's the wrong way to handle these issues . O'REILLY : All right , detain people who come over , no more cash and release . You for ? @!MORONES : I think that the catch and release program -- what we support is the fact that the people that are coming @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ a legal , humane . O'REILLY : OK , but wait a minute , Enrique , I do n't want to get into the big picture . We have plenty of time to do that later . You catch somebody coming across the border . Do you detain them ? Are you for that ? @!MORONES : If somebody 's coming across the border without documents , and the border patrol stops them , they have the right to do that . The border patrol does . O'REILLY : Do you favor . @!MORONES : The border patrol should send them back to . O'REILLY : Do you favor detention . @!MORONES : No , they should send them back to the country where they came from , not release them . O'REILLY : All right . @!MORONES : I think you and I agree on more things than . O'REILLY : OK. @!MORONES : . you would imagine . O'REILLY : All right , so no more catch and release ? You 're with me on that ? @!MORONES : Right . O'REILLY : Punish . @!MORONES : And right @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ than Mexicans . I think it should be . O'REILLY : No , no , no , Mexicans get released all day long all across the border . @!MORONES : Back in Mexico . O'REILLY : . because they do n't have the place -- the local authorities do n't have a place to put them . @!MORONES : That 's correct . O'REILLY : All right , punish businesses who hire illegals . Are you for ? @!MORONES : I think that the people that are hiring , the people are not immigration agents , however , they - you know , they should be , you know , checking if the person 's documented or undocumented by just asking them . They 're not immigration agents . So they 're not going to . O'REILLY : OK , so you 're not for that . You do n't want to punish businesses that hire illegals , OK. @!MORONES : Right . O'REILLY : Register -- 60 days to register as a foreign resident . Are you for the registration ? @!MORONES : It dependents on what the consequences will @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the path leads to legalization , then I 'm for it . O'REILLY : Well , just no guarantee of legalization . No guarantee . @!MORONES : Criminals , you want them in jail . If they 're real criminals , they should be in jail . O'REILLY : No . They 've got to learn how to speak English . They got to do a whole bunch of other things . There 's no guarantee . Are you for . @!MORONES : They 're already doing that , yes . O'REILLY : Are you for registering , no or yes ? @!MORONES : For registering people . O'REILLY : Right . @!MORONES : . as far as what ? O'REILLY : They 're here illegally now , I want them to register . Do you want them to or no ? @!MORONES : Yes . No , not the way that it 's being done right now . O'REILLY : OK. @!MORONES : I thought . O'REILLY : $3,000 fine for illegals who want valid working papers . Are you for that ? @!MORONES : I think that a $3,000 @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the right ... O'REILLY : All right , so it 's all you have to guarantee me legalization before any of the things come into play for you ? You have to guarantee it ? @!MORONES : It 's - yes , I think it 's got to be a pathway to legalization . Yes . O'REILLY : A guaranteed pathway , a guarantee ? @!MORONES : It can not be guaranteed , because the person might be a criminal . If he 's a criminal or she 's a criminal , they should be in jail . O'REILLY : All right , so you should be . @!MORONES : And the overwhelming majority of these people are not criminals . O'REILLY : They get in line and they go through the process . Guest worker program , I 'm sure you favor a guest worker program . @!MORONES : Not the way that President Bush has laid it out . That 's -- we call that a rented slave program . You ca n't have somebody for three or six years and them tell them to go back after they @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the values of this .... O'REILLY : OK , so everybody that is allowed in here becomes a citizen if they 're honest ? @!MORONES : They should have a pathway to citizenship . O'REILLY : OK , every single person who comes in the United States on a temporary work permit should have citizenship offered to them , if they 're honest ? @!MORONES : If -- they should have it offered . And the thing is that we need the workers here . So once there 's no jobs , then we look at different numbers . But right now , we need the workers . O'REILLY : OK. @!MORONES : . in the United States . So I think it 's very important that we do offer them a pathway to legalization . One of the major reasons that we help to organize these marches on a national basis , I went to 40 different cities . We 've had marches all over the country . O'REILLY : I know you have , Enrique . You 're a great organizer . And I wish you 'd get on @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ this in an orderly , fair way . But look . @!MORONES : I 'm on the correct side , not the right side . O'REILLY : Well , you might be on the correct side , but you 're certainly not on the side of most Americans . According to the polls , three-quarters of Americans , three-quarters , 75 percent , all right ? @!MORONES : I do n't think so . I do n't believe that . O'REILLY : Well , these are what the polls say , Enrique . It 's not the guys you hang out with . @!MORONES : I do . And they want a humane treatment for these people . They want a humane treatment for the people . You 've seen - we had a big -- there was a huge rally for the Minutemen in San Diego . 12 people . That 's huge for the Minutemen . We had a huge rally in L.A. We had a half million people . O'REILLY : You turned them out . You turned - that 's why I said it looks like there @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ And ( INAUDBILE ) across the country , we 'll continue to do it . O'REILLY : Well , 60 percent of Americans do not want legalization . And you want to guarantee legalization . So you 're on the downside of that . @!MORONES : Under certain conditions , yes . O'REILLY : All right . @!MORONES : And I think that if they knew those conditions , they would agree with me . O'REILLY : I do n't agree with you and I know them . @!MORONES : ( INAUDIBLE ) Native American . O'REILLY : And I 'm the most humane guy all day long . I know them . I do n't agree with you . I think that they have to earn citizenship , no pathway . You get in line . You get in line . @!MORONES : Yes . O'REILLY : You get in line . And if the authorities deem that you should get citizenship , you do . But no pathway , no guarantee . This is bologna . @!MORONES : No , they should earn it , I agree . O'REILLY @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ within Enrique , because Enrique thinks there 's a racial element to this . We 'll get into that when we come back . And later , another demonstration . This one in San Francisco . The evangelists versus the hedonists or something like that , coming right up . @(COMMERCIAL-BREAK) @(NEWSBREAK) @(BEGIN-VIDEO-CLIP) @!MORONES : They 're here to take care of our kids , to build our houses . These are productive members of society . We need to treat them in a dignified matter . And instead of these weapons of mass deception , let 's tell -- call it like it really is . These are racist laws . There 's vigilantes on the border . @(END-VIDEO-CLIP) O'REILLY : All right . Continuing now with Enrique Morones , founder of the Border Angels . What was the racist element here , as far as you 're concerned ? @!MORONES : Well , there 's a tremendous amount of racism in this legislation . The racial profiling that 's going on right now is unbelievable . Before we had a situation which still exists called driving while black . @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , they 're stopped more than Anglos . Now we have a situation called walking while brown . Walking while brown , you 're stopped because of your accent , the color of your skin . And that 's wrong . We 're all part of the American fabric . O'REILLY : Even -- are illegal - are people who sneak in here , sneak in -- violate our laws to get in , are they part of the American fabric ? @!MORONES : They are . You know , the fact that , you know , this was all - you know , the American sins of the past , invading Mexico , taking territory , that 's the past . There 's no serious movement to take that back like these fear mongers like to say . We are part of the American fabric . You saw . O'REILLY : But then why are -- if I snuck into Mexico tomorrow , all right , I did n't go through the border procedures , did n't show them my passport . Say , I did n't have a passport @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ snuck in to Mexico , would I be part of the Mexican fabric ? Would Mexico . @!MORONES : If you 're a convicted felon , you should be in jail . But there 's about a million Americans living in Mexico right now . A lot of them are undocumented , but they go down there to retire . It 's a different situation . O'REILLY : All right , so you say . @!MORONES : They 're not looking for work . O'REILLY : No matter where you sneak into , if I could sneak into Belgium or wherever , I 'd part of that country 's so-called fabric , you believe that ? @!MORONES : When I talk about open borders , I talk about open borders like Canada has open borders or Europe . Where the people come in , but you want to know who they are . So they have the visas for these people . They have the documentation available . O'REILLY : No , not everybody who wants to get into Canada can get into Canada . It 's easy , and it @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ problems that develop . Now , Enrique , you 're an American citizen , right ? @!MORONES : That 's right . O'REILLY : OK . So you and I both have that in common . We 're both American citizens . Should you and I , Enrique , pay for the medical bills of people who sneak into our country ? Should we do that ? @!MORONES : We 're not doing it now . O'REILLY : Yes , we are . In the emergency room . @!MORONES : People that are here . O'REILLY : Come on , Enrique . You 're an honest guy . @!MORONES : They provide a . O'REILLY : You 're an honest guy . @!MORONES : They provide a . O'REILLY : You 're an honest guy . Do n't say we 're not doing it now when you know every emergency room is required to treat anybody who walks in . We pay for that , sir . @!MORONES : And hopefully , they 'll continue to do that . That happens worldwide . The thing is . O'REILLY : Does n't @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ It does n't happened worldwide . @!MORONES : Most countries do that type of a situation . O'REILLY : No , they don't. @!MORONES : Most countries . That 's not so unique . O'REILLY : No. @!MORONES : No , they do . O'REILLY : . if you walk into a hospital in Pakistan , and you 're not a Muslim , you 're going to get kicked right on out of there . OK ? @!MORONES : There 's exceptions . But most countries , there 's 220 countries in the world . O'REILLY : All right . @!MORONES : I would say 190 of them go ahead and . O'REILLY : Let me break this to you gently . @!MORONES : . Canada . O'REILLY : If you sneak into any totalitarian country , any African country , and they catch you , you 're going to jail . You 're not going to the emergency room . They 're much harsher in their treatment . But . @!MORONES : I do n't want to . O'REILLY : . I want to get back to the original thing @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , buddies , all right , compadres. @!MORONES : Well , I do n't know about that , but . O'REILLY : Well , come on now , Enrique , be humane . @!MORONES : I 'm humane . O'REILLY : You and I , we are responsible for paying people 's medical bills who sneak into the United States . Do n't have to be Mexican . They can be from any country . You and I. @!MORONES : But that 's a false premise . O'REILLY : Why ? @!MORONES : When was the last time you saw a Latino on the corner with a sign that says will work for food ? Never . You 'll see 10 of them at the Home Depot ready to jump . O'REILLY : Enrique . @!MORONES : . in a car to go to work . They 're not here for the benefits . They 're here to work . O'REILLY : Every hospital in every border state says the same thing . Overwhelmed by people . @!MORONES : Yes . O'REILLY : . with no medical - OK . So @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ I agree . O'REILLY : Enrique , you and I , compadres . We are going to pay for the healthcare of everybody who sneaks in here . That 's what you think is fair ? @!MORONES : We need national healthcare reform . O'REILLY : OK , national means . @!MORONES : ( INAUDIBLE ) provide the economy . O'REILLY : National means . @!MORONES : Keep our prices down on groceries . O'REILLY : Enrique . @!MORONES : Builds our houses , takes care of our kids . O'REILLY : All right , do n't filibuster , Enrique . @!MORONES : They should be getting something , too . O'REILLY : Do n't filibuster . @!MORONES : ( INAUDIBLE ) as well . O'REILLY : National means American citizens . You want Americans to pay for everybody 's healthcare . @!MORONES : No . O'REILLY : That 's nuts . That 's not fair . And I 'll give you the last word , go . @!MORONES : OK , well , that 's not the way that I look at it . We have 5 percent of the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ United States consumes 35 percent of the world 's natural resources , consumes 80 percent of the world 's illegal drugs , has caused terrorism , has caused a lot of problems . O'REILLY : But why do you want to live here , Enrique ? Why do you want to live - if we 're that bad . @!MORONES : Because this is my land . I was born here . O'REILLY : But if we 're that bad . @!MORONES : I was born here . We want it to change for the better . O'REILLY : If we 're that bad , why do millions of people want to get here ? Stay where they are if they 're that bad . @!MORONES : Yes , that 's why - we want to live here also , but we want to make it better . We want to make it better . O'REILLY : Oh , I get it . @!MORONES : Because this country is much better than what 's taking place right now . O'REILLY : All right . @!MORONES : And that 's what we @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ these millions of rallies across the country and will continue . O'REILLY : OK . Enrique , look , I got to say you one thing . @!MORONES : For everybody . O'REILLY : You 're a stand-up guy . You 're a stand-up guy for coming in and debating this issue . It 's a very important issue . It 's very important for people to understand what you feel and why you feel that way . And we really appreciate you coming in. @!MORONES : I appreciate it , Bill , thank you . O'REILLY : Muchas gracias , compadre. @!MORONES : Gracias . OK , amigo . O'REILLY : In a moment , terrible tragedy in Florida . Race car driver , worked for David Letterman killed . There it is . That story , up next . @(COMMERCIAL-BREAK) 