
##221370 Dan Rather , host : Good evening and happy New Year . Over the past two decades , America has seen a dramatic transformation in the status of women , a struggle for equal rights and equal opportunity that has changed roles and rules at work and at home . Despite this revolution , or maybe because of it , there 's an unspoken tension between men and women , tension that surfaced in offices around the nation during the Clarence Thomas-Anita Hill debate in the fall . But as we found out during our 48 Hours , the workplace is not the only place you can join the battle of the sexes . @!THE-PERFECT-DATE-# Richard Schlesinger reporting : Katy Stapleton : What we want to do is show your chemistry , your ki -- your energy . We 're marketing you . We want to bring out the best Barry we possibly can . Starting right now . Barry : Thank you very much . Schlesinger : For many men and women , finding a date has become less of an adventure ... Barry : The philosophy @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ : ... and more of a job . Barry : ... honesty , sincerity , fidelity . Stapleton : A lot of people come in feeling that this is a last resort or that -- that -- that it 's not a positive thing . Schlesinger : Katy Stapleton works for Great Expectations video-dating service , outside Philadelphia . Stapleton : Everybody 's in pursuit of this one relationship or one love . Schlesinger : Everyone , including Katy , who signed herself up as a member ... Stapleton : We dated for a year . Schlesinger : ... and found Mr. Right . Stapleton : And we just got engaged in August . Schlesinger : Statistics show men and women are waiting longer to get married , on average three years longer than they did in the ' 70s . So video dating has become big business . Ed : I do n't sit and read romance novels very much . Schlesinger : This is Ed . He 's never been married . He 's got his own business . He 's been a member for about a year . @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ... Schlesinger : He selected Christina . Christina : ... taken to the airport where a charter plane would be waiting . Schlesinger : After looking at Ed 's profile , Christina rejected him . Instead , she picked Paul ... Paul : I kind of think of myself as a renaissance man . Schlesinger : ... who , after seeing Christina 's file , rejected her but said yes to someone else . It gets complicated . Stapleton : It takes work . Schlesinger : It also takes money . It costs about $ 2,000 to join . The membership lasts until you marry . Penny : I love Mexico . Schlesinger : There 's no limit to the number of selections you can make . Ed also asked to meet Penny , and she said yes . But that 's another story . It 's also complicated . We 'll tell you about it later . Paul : It 's all ironed and ready to go . Schlesinger : When Great Expectations members ca n't get dates the high-tech way ... Paul : This is the bachelor pad palace @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Black lacquered bed with mirrors . What woman could resist ? Schlesinger : ... there 's still the old-fashioned way : singles bars . Paul : In fact , 90 percent of the girls I 've met in this area I 've met at Touche 's . Schlesinger : Touche 's is one of several dance clubs in the Philadelphia suburb , King of Prussia . Paul : When you 're going to clubs , you 've got to have a partner . You ca n't just go if you want to meet females . I usually like to dress up . And women , being so clothes conscious , you know , they pick up on , you know , a well-dressed man . Black Caveriches , white shirt -- that 's what the girls like . Stapleton : Would you ever just bring a woman home with you that night ? Paul : Some people say I 'm a womanizer , but at heart I 'm really a one-woman man . I 'm just single . You know , I do n't have a girlfriend so ... You 're @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ : I do n't necessarily go out to look for men . I go -- I go out to have a good time , and if I meet someone , that 's fine . Schlesinger : Remember Christina , the woman from Great Expectations who Paul turned down ? She 's also going out tonight , to another club called Nightworks . Christina : I like this place . I like this area . Schlesinger : Christina is meeting her friends Alex and Cindy . Christina : Right now in the dating scenes , you have to play a game in order to survive . If you do n't want to play , then you 're not in the league . Schlesinger : The game is simple and there 's only one rule : The more interested you are , the less interested you act . Christina : You have to seem like you 're not available in order for someone to be interested . Paul : And if you come in with an ' I do n't care ' attitude and be yourself , they go crazy . You know @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ : @!Mr-Calvin. @!Mr-Calvin : How 's it going , Paul ? Paul : Going good . Look at those unbelievable foxes . Good to see you guys . How are you doing ? You look nice tonight . Schlesinger : Are you looking for Ms. Right in here or are you just looking for a good time ? Paul : Both . Schlesinger : Are you happy being single ? Paul : There are advantages to being single . Schlesinger : Like what ? Paul : You meet new girls all the time . Did you request this song just for me ? You do n't get bored with a relationship , you know ? I guess I grew up with th -- the Playboy mentality . Christina : I am -- I am interested in a long-term relationship . And it just seems like you finally think you 're getting to that point , and then they run . I am tired of guys asking for your phone number and then you hope they call and they never do . That 's part of the problem in the dating scene @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ . Paul : Generally speaking , I can at least get a phone number every time I come here . Schlesinger : By the time you leave here tonight , are you going to have any phone numbers ? Paul : Well , maybe . Maybe . Christina : I would say the best -- the best two movies that I 've seen recently are " What About Bob ? " and " Hamlet . " Schlesinger : Back at Nightworks , Christina has met someone , but the tables have turned . Unidentified Man 1 : I do hope you 'll call . If you call me , we 'll go to dinner . Christina : I love that feeling of control , instead of a male controlling the situation . Man 1 : If you 're really into Chinese food , I will take you to Mount Holly , New Jersey . Christina : Cindy , are you ready to go ? Man 1 : It was incredibly nice meeting you . Christina : You , too . Man 1 : And I really , really -- I really @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ he 's going to be sweating and wanting me to call . Schlesinger : But not every man is waiting for Christina 's call . Ed : I mean , if you look at the rest of the animal kingdom , and how it 's been up till the last 30 years , the man 's in charge , the man makes the decisions . Schlesinger : Remember Ed , the man from Great Expectations , who Christina rejected ? Ed : You just do n't get up tomorrow and say , ' Hey , it 's the ' 90s . ' Penny : I think men sometimes are intimidated by women that are too strong . Schlesinger : He 's meeting Penny on their first date . Penny : They want the lovely woman that is on their arm that they can look at and say , ' This is -- this is my partner , and is n't she beautiful ? And is n't she -- are n't I a great reflection of her and vice versa ? ' Schlesinger : Later in our 48 Hours . 
##221371 BORDER WAR Bernard Goldberg reporting : Twilight along the Mexican border between Tijuana and Southern California is so peaceful . How could you know just by looking that this is the calm right before the storm ? How could you know just by looking that in a while , when it gets dark , this will be the busiest illegal border crossing anywhere in the entire world ? Roland Gonzales ( US Border Patrol ) : You better haul ass back , dude , right now . Let 's go . They will be back . They will be back tomorrow evening . And there goes a pair right down there , too . Goldberg : Roland Gonzales is a US Border Patrol agent , a 14-year veteran . Gonzales : One , two , three , four , five , six , seven of them . It 's the adult version of hide-and-go-seek , maybe a little bit more dangerous than the regular game . Unidentified Man 1 : We 're going to go across about 11:00 , just as soon as our friend here , the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ you get all kinds . Unidentified Man 2 : Hasta la vista . Gonzales : You become accustomed to this . It 's just part of the life right here on the borderline . Goldberg : Where are you going ? Unidentified Man 3 : I 'm going to Los Angeles . Unidentified Man 4 : Los Angeles . Goldberg : Los Angeles . Unidentified Man 5 : Chicago . Goldberg : This is the last stop , actually the last rest stop on the way to the United States . Back there , they sell drinks for the journey , vegetables , over here , maybe some tacos . And down over here , they 're actually selling running shoes to get to the United States , $ 10 a pair . But if you think that fence is just a little too high and a little too dangerous to get across , no problem . All you have to do is walk a few feet and there you are , the United States of America . Pablo : ( Through Translator ) I help people cross to the United @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ way nobody gets robbed or raped by bandits . Everyone here is a guide . Goldberg : Pablo is a kind of travel agent for illegal aliens . What do they give you , Pablo , for helping them get to the United States ? What do you get ? Pablo : Dinero . Goldberg : Money . How much money per person ? Pablo : ( Through Translator ) Two hundred , 250 , depending where they 're going . If they go to Chicago , 700 , 750 . Goldberg : Geez , I me -- I hate to bring this up , Pablo , but it 's illegal . You know that . Pablo : ( Through Translator ) Look , I 'm only a criminal by US law . Criminals here are people who kill , not somebody that takes people across to work . And besides , America gets rich on our cheap labor . Gonzales : See , all these people on the top of this perimeter here are on our side . You can see it . They 're starting to walk back . @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ is the routine , right ? Gonzales : Right . Goldberg : If you get close enough , they go back 10 feet into Mexico . Gonzales : Yeah . They 'll probably wait for me right there at the line and -- and -- or just a little bit on this side to see what am I going to do . I act ; they react . They know they have to come north to do something , and our job is to try to stop them . Goldberg : Nighttime , this weekend , every weekend , is the time for thousands of desperate journeys . The Border Patrol estimates that 5,000 aliens try to make it through this crossing every day . At least two out of three make it . Maria : ( Through Translator ) Like everybody , I 've come to see what 's on the other side of the fence . I 'm a nurse , and I really ca n't make it on what they pay here . Goldberg : She is a Mexican trying to make it to California . We 'll @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ north . Maria : ( Through Translator ) Why would you want to cross to the other side if not to improve yourself ? I 'll take any kind of work , even the most humble . Goldberg : Maria is traveling without a guide , running in the darkness with her four-year-old daughter and a friend . Maria : ( Through Translator ) Of course , it 's tough to travel with a child , but more than a bother , it 's just sad . Goldberg : For the Border Patrol , it 's a non-stop , never-ending contest . Gonzales : We have the infrared scope up already , so hopefully that 's going to help us a lot . Goldberg : And every night , every single night , you can bet there will be a chase . Unidentified Man 6 : Andale , andale , andale . Unidentified Man 7 : OK , Carlo . We got those three . Unidentified Man 8 : I got about 10 of them here . Man 7 : We got 30 of them . Gonzales : None of them @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ know they 're caught , so that 's it . Goldberg : You do n't find this bizarre , that you 're the federal agent , they 're the illegal aliens , everybody 's friends , everybo ... Gonzales : They know , and we know . If everybody behaves themselves , there 's not going to be a problem . Goldberg : How crazy is it ? You 've just been caught by the Border Patrol . Where do you want to go ? He wants to go to Disneyland ? But not tonight . Everyone caught is held for six hours , then dropped off at the Mexican border . Gonzales : It 's a cycle . It 's a circle . We catch people , we send them back . Goldberg : And in the no-man 's land between Tijuana and Southern California , Maria is still making her way north , and so far still evading the Border Patrol . Maria : ( Through Translator ) I do n't know why they put so much effort to stop you from getting into the country . When you @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ factories , in the restaurants , in the fields . Americans just do work in offices , banks , good jobs . Unidentified Man 9 : ( Through Translator ) It 's the Border Patrol . Let 's go . Goldberg : Another woman hiding in the dark was lucky to be caught by the Border Patrol . Gonzales : She 's out of breath . She 's having a hard time speaking to us . She has high blood pressure . Let 's walk them . When I first started , I saw my grandmother and my grandfather in some of these old people that I arrested . But once you take that oath and give somebody your word you 're going to do something , you 're going to do it . She was looking for housework like a domestic maid type or a dishwasher . What worries me is that what if we had n't caught her and she had an attack out there in the middle -- out in the middle of nowhere ? We would n't find her until somebody came up to us and said @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ or dead . ' Goldberg : But most casualties of the journey are victims of a different kind of attack . Maria : ( Through Translator ) The only people walking around here are bandits . They take your money , and , unfortunately , they have even killed some Mexican migrants . Goldberg : Suddenly , Maria 's companion hears noises . Unidentified Man 10 : Do n't run , do n't run . That 's not the Border Patrol . Those are bandits . When the border patrol finds you , they shout . Maria : ( Through Translator ) It is dangerous , but I think it 's worth it . It 's not for me that I 'm doing this . It 's for my daughter , so she can have a better life . Goldberg : Later , we 'll see how Maria 's journey ends , and how thousands of other journeys begin . 
##221372 TEST OF STRENGTH Lucille Ashcraft : I think they 're thinking I do n't have any brains anymore or something . I just do n't have any sense or do n't know what I 'm doing . Erin Moriarty reporting : Does that worry you at all that they may be right ... Ashcraft : I do n't pay any attention to it . I go along as I 've always gone along . My husband 's dead 13 years , and I 've gotten along . Moriarty : Do you notice , though , at all , that you 're forgetting things more or do you notice any difference in your ability to take care of yourself ? Ashcraft : No . Moriarty : It 's not enough that she thinks she 's fine ; 78-year-old Lucille Ashcraft will have to prove it . Unidentified Man 1 : We 're going to head down to a testing room . Moriarty : Her doctors at Saint Louis University ordered a checkup -- not a physical , but a mental checkup . Man 1 : OK . First , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ memory causes you any problems ? Ashcraft : No , not really , nothing I could n't cope with . Sharon Stetcher : She was going for days without eating . She was more forgetful . Moriarty : Her daughter , Sharon Stetcher . Stetcher : ... losing checks before they were deposited . Ashcraft : I think you 're making more of a mountain out of some of this stuff . Stetcher : My mom had forgotten my phone number , and I 've lived there for 12 years . Ashcraft : That 's not unusual . Stetcher : That , to me , was an indication that ... Ashcraft : I mean , I ca n't understand her making a big deal of it . Moriarty : The tests will show who 's right and whether Lucille can continue to live on her own . Man 1 : The first one is simply : What year is this right now ? Ashcraft : ' 91 . Man 1 : It sure is . OK . And what season of the year is it ? Ashcraft : Fall . Man @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ : It 's October . Man 1 : Very good . I would like you to count backwards from 100 by sevens . Ashcraft : Ninety-three ... Man 1 : Keep going . Ashcraft : ... 86 , 79 ... Moriarty : The examination goes on through the morning hours . Ashcraft : This is confusing , nine minus five . Usually it 's five minus nine . Is that what you 're trying to do here , confuse me or ... Man 1 : Not really . Ashcraft : I really do n't know . I mean , all I 'm doing is getting very dubious of my capability . Man 1 : Well . Ashcraft : That 's what I 'm doing right now . Man 1 : ... was driving a 10-ton truck down a highway at night in the Mississippi Delta carrying ... Tell me as much as you can about the story . Ashcraft : I do n't know . You know , it just is n't registering . Man 1 : OK , Lucille , about a half-hour ago , I read to you a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ remember the stories that I read to you a few minutes ago -- anything -- anything at all . Stetcher : My fear is that she is going to be like her mother and have a progressive type of what most people call senility . Moriarty : Is she aware of the changes ? Stetcher : She is , and she 's very frightened by them . And she 's very closed about them . Man 1 : You 'll have just 10 seconds to look at each one . Ashcraft : Oh , dear . I 'm going to shoot my daughter after all this . I know she 's considering putting me in a home -- is possibly what she 's doing . That 's what she wants to do . Man 1 : I ca n't tell you that 's not true , Lucille . Ashcraft : I know it is true . Man 1 : I can tell you what ... Ashcraft : I 'm going to fight it every step of the way . Susan Bass : Hi , my name is Susan . You want @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ sure . Bass : What we wanted you to do today was do so -- do some cooking for me . Ashcraft : Maybe I could teach you something . Bass : I have tuna salad . Ashcraft : No onion , no green pepper ? Salad does n't take anything without onion in it . Bass : If you do n't have onion and green pepper and you have celery , what do you do next ? Ashcraft : My God , you 're treating me like I 'm an idiot . Bass : No , I 'm ... No , underneath the oven ... You go ahead and chop . Ashcraft : This is just so plain stupid . When I get my daughter home today , she 's going to hear from her mother . Did Sharon tell you I do n't know how to cook ? Man 1 : What 's the name of that ? Moriarty : As the afternoon wears on ... Ashcraft : I do n't know . A thousand legger ? Moriarty : ... Lucille 's lapses become more evident . Man 1 @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ make one that looks just like this . Ashcraft : I 'm doing something wrong , I can see that right now . I do n't know . I guess I ca n't do it . Moriarty : Are you scared , looking at the future ? Stetcher : It 's real hard when I think about how her mother was . Moriarty : Can you tell it scares her , too ? Stetcher : I can tell that , because that 's when she gets angry and she gets irritable . Ashcraft : I would n't do this again ... Man 1 : For the world . Ashcraft : That 's right . There 's my daughter . I think I 'll lay her over my knee right here . When I get you home ... Stetcher : Yes , I know , Mom . Well , how was it ? Was it like last time ? Ashcraft : You do n't really want to know how terrible -- I never had anything like this before . I do n't even want to talk about it . Moriarty : Why @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ did n't realize how difficult it was going to be on her until she came back and said it was the most horrible thing she 'd ever done . It made her more aware . She became more in touch with her limitations , and that was really difficult . Moriarty : And how difficult was that for you ? Stetcher : Very difficult for me . I -- I -- I just -- just really is upsetting . @!Dr-George-Grossber : As you all know , Dr. Sky and I will be meeting with Mrs. Ashcraft and her family later this afternoon . Moriarty : The hospital staff meets to discuss Lucille 's case . Unidentified Man 2 : She did fairly well until about two or three months ago . She would call me up in hysterics , forgetting where she had placed things , forgetting if she had paid her bills . Man 1 : She fell at the -- the second percentile for a complex verbal memory measure when compared to other persons of her age group . Unidentified Woman 1 : She was n't changing her clothes @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ objective evidence seems to point to the fact that this woman is not aware of her deficits ; she has serious deficits . Moriarty : @!Dr-George-Grossber : Grossberg : The impairment is mild . The testing did -- did show fairly clearly that it was not just part of the aging process . You met with Susan Bass , who 's -- who did the evaluation of cooking , and she had some concerns in the area of safety -- you know , the possibility that because of forgetfulness , one might sometimes , you know , leave something on the stove unattended . Now one of the things that we discussed ... Ashcraft : Is she -- is she really qualified to see that there 's something like that that -- that she would notice in me or is sh -- to me , she was n't very qualified . She knew I was going to make tuna salad . She did n't have onion . She did n't have green peppers in . Grossberg : Right , right . Ashcraft : Well , I mean , I ... Grossberg @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ you did fine with making things like that . But there is an impairment . We do n't want to you leave saying , you know , ' Gee , everything 's fine , ' because we do need to get you some assistance in some very important areas . And let me be honest with you . None of the testing would lead any of us to indicate that you need to be in a nursing home , God forbid , or anything of that nature . You 're , by no means , anywhere near a nursing home candidate , OK ? Moriarty : While Lucille may be impaired , she is not incompetent . She 'll need a full-time housekeeper , not a guardian . Unidentified Mailman : How goes it ? Ashcraft : No junk mail today . Is that all you got ? Mailman : Oh , you know we have to have that every day . Ashcraft : Thank you . Mailman : Have a good day . 
##221373 Dan Rather , host : If you could no longer make your own decisions , who would make them for you ? It 's a question many Americans must face sooner or later , either for themselves or someone close to them . If you 're lucky , a relative or a friend will be there to help out of love . But often , it 's up to the courts to appoint a legal guardian to protect older people and their money from falling into the wrong hands . As you 're about to see , even in the best of circumstances , the issue of guardianship can strain family ties . At worst , it pits would-be caretakers against each other in a cruel tug-of-war . @!MY-BROTHER'S-KEEPE# Frank Scott : I was recognized as the oldest person born and raised in Watkins County . I was here before the town was named Bellingham . Phil Jones reporting : Indeed , Frank Scott is a pioneer . He 's lived all his 92 years right here in Bellingham , Washington ... Scott : That 's a 34-foot @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ time he was at sea as a commercial salmon fisherman . Scott : Fishing used to be about a five-day week . But up in Alaska it 's different . We ha -- we stayed up there for 45 days . Jones : Frank 's older brother , Rex , now 94 , stayed home and raised chickens . Scott : Well -- well , he had more money than the rest of us , say it that way . Jones : And so it was . Scott : And that is my brother . Jones : The Scotts grew up happily in this house . Rex still lives there -- a picture-perfect family . Scott : We had a very good relationship . Jones : But no more . Now Frank and Rex do n't talk to each other unless it 's through court papers . They 're locked in a battle over who has the right to take care of Rex . The battle for control of Rex began here at the Watkins County Courthouse some three years ago . Frank claimed his brother was incompetent , and he @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ . The case has turned into a real-life drama , a Bellingham soap opera with charges of abuse , greed , brainwashing , and even suggestions of sexual affection to manipulate an old man . Meet the cast . Veral Creel : He was my number one uncle . Jones : Frank 's daughter , Veral Creel . Uncle Rex deeded her the family house 11 years ago ; Judy Peterson Bozich , one of Rex 's home-care workers . Scott : She poisoned Rex 's mind against our daughter and myself and my wife . Jones : Joe Roberts -- he has Rex 's power of attorney . Scott : That is my mistake that Joe is in there . I have got to admit that . Jones : There are lawyers and judges . Steve Chance : If there was n't any money involved , we would n't be here . Jones : And new on the scene , a deprogrammer . Rick Ross : I believe that a man 's life is at stake here . Jones : Rick Ross , hired to help rescue Rex 's mind @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to work ? Does he have to die ? Jones : Since the guardianship battle began , Frank has had trouble reaching his brother , but he 's sure Rex would like to talk . He had tried to reach you by telephone . Scott : Yes , sir . Jones : And -- and you heard the phone being taken away from him ? Scott : Absolutely . Jones : Next , Rex got a new phone number , unlisted . Then you tried by -- by certified mail , registered mail ? Scott : Yes , sir . Jones : None of the letters were accepted ? Scott : That 's right . Jones : Then Frank found out Rex had a restraining order against him ordering him to stay away . But your brother signed it and said he did n't want -- he did n't want to see you . He wanted you to just keep away from him . Scott : That 's right . My brother would sign anything . It 's not his words . Jones : Now he relies on Rex 's neighbors @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ brother . Gerry Freeman : There were cars coming in and out , and I thought I could see them moving out furniture . Well , I always report to Frank . It 's just like a movie over here . Jones : And it 's a movie Frank would like to recast . He regrets entrusting his fellow fisherman , Joe Roberts , with Rex 's finances . So you 've known him , what , 30 , 40 years ? Scott : Thirty years maybe . Jones : Thirty years . Scott : He had to get somebody to straighten out them bills for him . Well , naturally , the first man I thought of was Joe . Well , the first thing we had to do was go up to the bank . He had $ 80,000 there in a checking account , and $ 200,000 and 300,000 otherwise . Jones : Now , Frank , you know that some people might say , ' Well , maybe that 's why you want him out of there , because you want the money . ' Scott : @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to live peaceful in our old age . They 're after his money . What else could they be after ? Creel : I -- I felt a little uneasy . Jones : Frank 's daughter Veral says she should have followed her instincts when it came to Judy Peterson Bozich , one of those hired to care for Rex . Creel : Judy would come in mini-skirts , denim , zippers down the front , tight sweaters . Jones : Neighbor Gerry Freeman also noticed . Freeman : She walked Rex down the road , hanging onto his hand , you know , and really paying attention and smiling . And she had Rex , boy , all psyched out . And then she would take him for rides , and it was a shame the way she would lean over that elderly man . And , of course , he 's never been married , and , of course , he enjoyed every minute of it . Jones : But Judy has her own accusations . In the guardianship papers , she and Joe Roberts claimed Rex was being @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to sell the house . Did you ? Creel : I made some effort . I never ever followed through on it . And as a courtesy to my uncle , I said , ' We are considering this , and it would n't change one whit your living here . ' Jones : Could n't this be construed by an elderly person as a threat to his well-being ? Creel : I suppose , in a sense , it could have been . Jones : You know , Frank , they 've suggested that -- you know , that you were verbally abusive , and that you did not have Rex 's best interest at heart . Scott : Why , that 's -- that 's -- that 's a lie that -- I never knew any -- any way to counteract . There never was any animosity in our family . Jones : Frank 's guardianship petition went to court , and Judge David Nichols ruled that Rex did n't need a guardian , that he was capable of managing his own affairs . Judge David Nichols : ... @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ brother that he wished to be let alone and not have this contact , there was really no alternative for the court but to say , ' Mr. Frank Scott , I could n't be sorrier . I think it 's a tragedy that this has occurred , but there 's no basis on which a court of law can intervene . ' Jones : Maybe he truly does n't want to see you anymore . Creel : That 's very difficult for me to understand when we were a very close family . Why would a person -- why would his personality and his attitude change so drastically ? I still love my uncle , and I know my dad does . Jones : Do you think he loves you ? Creel : I do n't know . I do n't know . Jones : Why do n't you know ? Creel : Well , when I went there , what I saw was an empty man . Jones : Today , Veral is hoping that will change . So you saw this man on a television talk show ... @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ something clicked ? Creel : You bet it did . Jones : The man , Rick Ross , is a deprogrammer . Usually he rescues kids from cults at the request of their parents . Ross has slipped into Bellingham Airport , hired by Veral , to help rescue Rex from those so-called outsiders . Ross : All of you have tried to do everything that you humanly could . It really seems like they have created , in a sense , a new family for him . Jones : Ross goes over the battle plan . Ross : What we 're going to do is first try to talk to Rex -- is what I think . We should go to Rex first . Creel : OK . Ross : I would like to go with at least one family member . I realize that that 's a tough decision , because of these restraining orders . Scott : I 'll go up there . I do n't know whether they 'll put me right in the jail . They might , but I 'm not afraid to . That @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ : 48 Hours found Rex up and about , going to get his mail . Tomorrow his brother will come looking for him with the deprogrammer . We 'll be there , too . 
##221374 MY BROTHER 'S KEEPER PART TWO Frank Scott : I do n't know what condition he 's in from day to day . Phil Jones reporting : In Bellingham , Washington , the plot thickens. 92-year-old Frank Scott is getting ready to break the law just to see his 94-year-old brother , Rex . It 's been three years since Frank tried to become Rex 's guardian , and Rex responded by getting a restraining order to keep him away . Scott : This group that 's up here now , they turned Rex against Rex 's family . Jones : Frank is convinced his brother is being manipulated , and so is Rick Ross , the deprogrammer the family has hired at $ 300 a day to help them reach Rex . Rick Ross : What I see is -- just like people that become involved in these cults , I see a process of mind control and thought reform that has been used to what we call brainwash your brother , Rex . Scott : All right . Ross : Lead on , Mr. Scott . @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ : She would not let him answer the door . Jones : A housekeeper answers the door . Unidentified Woman 1 : What would you like ? Scott : I would like to talk with Rex . I 'm Frank , his brother . I 'd like to come in and talk to him and have my friends come in also . Woman 1 : Just a minute . They want to talk to you . qwq @ ( The-woman-and-Rex- Woman 1 : No , he does n't want to . He has just got out of his tub , so he -- he 'll co -- he does n't want you to come in . Scott : I see . Woman 1 : The best thing for you to do is you 'd better phone him . Ross : Is there no possibility that Frank Scott can at least shake his brother 's hand or say hi to him or anything ? He really would ... Woman 1 : He said he would prefer not to right now . Ross : Do you know why ? Why ? Woman 1 @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ here . Thank you . Scott : You asked me to phone Rex . I could phone Rex , but the last times I 've ever tried to call Rex , I was interfered with . Woman 1 : Really ? Scott : I could n't call Rex . Rex could n't ... Woman 1 : No , I tell you ... Scott : You -- you have an unlisted number , too , do n't you ? Woman 1 : As far as I know . Scott : Well , give me your number . Woman 1 : I ca n't . You 'd have to get that from Joe . I tell you , just go and talk to Joe . He can tell you , because I just work here . Ross : I see . Woman 1 : OK ? Ross : All right , ma'am . Woman 1 : OK ? Scott : No , it is n't OK . Woman 1 : Well , you go and have a talk with him . Jones : Once again , Frank is kept from his brother . @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the door and just look at his brother and say , ' Frank , you know how I feel about all of this ; I do n't want you here , ' someone thinking critically , thinking reflectively and acting on their own , but I just did n't see that . Jones : Rick Ross has two more surprise visits to make to the people he believes are controlling Rex 's mind and money . First stop : Joe Robert 's house . He 's with his wife , Virginia . Joe Roberts : When he does come there to visit , he does n't visit . He comes to harass . His brother comes to harass him . Ross : How ? @!J-Roberts : He starts right in ridiculing the people that are around him , the different people , including myself -- ' You 've got to get rid of these people . They 're out to get you . ' Ross : The home-care worker that was there said that Frank Scott can not even have the telephone number . Why ca n't he have his brother @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ n't want him to have it . Ross : Why would his brother ... Virginia Roberts : I have called the attorney . And I have called the sheriff 's office . Jones : The Roberts declined an interview with 48 Hours . @!V-Roberts : So we will invite you to please leave . Jones : Is n't there a chance that there is bad feeling here between Rex and Frank and Veral ? Ross : Is n't it ironic that at the same point that Mr. Roberts and Ms. Peterson join together in this situation , that everything changed so quickly , and that there is a considerable amount of money involved ? Jones : Next , Ross goes to the office of Judy Peterson Bozich , once Rex 's health-care worker . Judy Peterson Bozich : I 'm not involved in any of his financial matters or any of the things that go on there . Ross : And you 're not a beneficiary in any way from a will ? Bozich : I am not a beneficiary . Jones : According to Judy , there 's only one @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ niece , Frank 's daughter , Veral Creel . Bozich : They were , all three of them , standing -- poor Rex was in the corner sitting , and they were standing around him , and Veral was just yelling at him , just -- and the poor man had tears in his eyes . He could n't talk back . He ca n't do anything . And it was just real abuse . Jones : Judy still visits Rex once a week . That 's her on the right . And when we met Judy at her real estate office , she again said Rex 's real problem is with his niece , Veral . Bozich : He asked me why he had to be under her control . Jones : Under Veral 's control ? Bozich : Yes . And if he did n't -- if I could help him , maybe -- I do n't know -- get it -- get it dealt with . Jones : You know the -- the things that have been said about you . One of the neighbors was talking about @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that you were making Rex very happy . Bozich : I do n't know what to say . That 's pretty sick . Jones : They suggest that you 're doing it for one reason : to get his money . Bozich : That 's not true . Jones : The judge told me we would n't be going through all this if he did n't have all the money involved . Do you agree with that ? Bozich : It could be , yeah . I think that 's the case a lot of times , you know . Jones : Is it th -- is it in this case ? Bozich : It kind of looks that way . Jones : So ... Bozich : It 's ugly . Jones : It 's ugly . Bozich : Well , yeah . Jones : And who 's -- if that 's the case , who 's after the money ? Bozich : Stuck my foot in there , huh ? Jones : You go around town , and you talk with some people who have knowledge of this case , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ . Rex does n't trust her . Scott : Well , I can tell you why . She is our daughter . She is younger than I and my wife . Well , she 's the target for them people . Ross : I think there must be an attorney in Wattcome County who is willing to represent you . Jones : The deprogrammer is headed home . His advice to the family : get a lawyer . Ross : I think that the system can work . Jones : Frank 's losing hope he 'll ever see his brother . Scott : You know , when a person lives here , like I have , and sees these people taking advantage of me and the -- and the rest of the family , they should n't be in there . They 're using time as the element to protect him . Time 's running out in this case . Jones : But Rex has been heard from in a subpoena . Scott : They are after me for going on my own property up there -- breaking the restraining order @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to court , later in our 48 Hours . 
##221375 BEST INTEREST Unidentified Woman 1 : Are you comfortable here in the house ? Dorothy Moore : Yeah . Woman 1 : Oh , good . Erin Moriarty reporting : Dorothy Moore has no idea what day it is or where she is ... Unidentified Man 1 : Your Honor , Dorothy M. Moore is 72 years of age . Moriarty : ... or what 's going on just a few miles away from her Denver nursing home . Judge Field Benton : From the file it seems to me that she 's not able to manage her affairs . Now is that pretty well conceded by everybody ? Moriarty : Judge Field Benton is about to make a decision that will have a crucial effect on Dorothy 's life . He 's going to choose her guardian . In Colorado , Dorothy is entitled to a hearing , even though she 's not well enough to appear . When you name someone a guardian over someone 's life , how much power are you giving that person ? Benton : Well , essentially it 's making them @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ decide where the person lives , how they live , whether they get new clothes . It 's a pretty powerful position . Man 1 : Are you familiar with the powers and duties of a guardian ? Stephanie Conrardy : Yes , I am . Moriarty : And it pays well , too . Professional guardians in Denver make anywhere from $ 40 to $ 60 an hour . Charles Snead : Now if they 're going to pay a guardian , why do n't they pay somebody in the family ? Benton : That 's the choice between a family member , if you will , and a local professional guardian . Moriarty : On one side is Charles Snead . Snead : We feel that -- that the family should be able to control , you know , her affairs to a great extent . Moriarty : He 's Dorothy 's cousin from Virginia . Man 1 : What was her personal hygiene like ? Conrardy : Deplorable . Moriarty : On the other side , Stephanie Conrardy , a professional guardian and nurse hired by Dorothy 's @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ 's savings . There 's no question she needs a guardian . Dorothy is suffering from senile dementia , and there is evidence that she may have been taken advantage of by her former neighbors . Unidentified Woman 2 : I reviewed every check that went through the account . Moriarty : The bank alleges as much as $ 50,000 was taken from her bank accounts . What the judge has to do now is make sure that it never happens again . He has to choose the right person to protect Dorothy . Benton : That 's why they call these protective proceedings . It 's an antidote for greed or a shield against greed , a protection against greed . Moriarty : Stephanie Conrardy thinks greed is the reason Charles Snead came all the way from Virginia seeking the guardianship . Snead : I could have said the same thing about her . If -- if the money was n't there , she would n't have been there . Moriarty : How do you decide what is best for Dorothy Moore ? Benton : It 's largely a visceral @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ it 's such a subjective test . What is in her best interest ? It can be imperfect , and that 's really the blessing of this monitoring system . You get a second chance . Eddy Still : Well , here are all my people . Moriarty : This is the judge 's second chance . Still : Hi , how are you ? I 'm Eddy Still . Moriarty : She 's a volunteer , called a court friend ... Still : You 're Annetta ? Edith : No , I 'm Edith . Still : You 're Edith ? Moriarty : ... who checks up on guardians appointed by the court . Still : And you 're Annetta . Thank you both . And this is Emma . Moriarty : In this case , she 's dropping in on a 94-year-old woman named Emma . Still : I 'm just going to find out how they 've been treating you . I look for bruises , messy dresses , smell . Emma : They 've been nice to me . Still : That 's wonderful . You deserve @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ : Annetta and Edith were Emma 's neighbors and friends . Annetta : I do n't know that anybody would have cared for her . Moriarty : Now they are her guardians . Emma : I 'm all right . Moriarty : She has no relatives . Edith : She would be a nobody , probably . Annetta : Are you getting tired ? Moriarty : She has no money , either . Annetta : She ran out of money last year in July , and we just did not know what to do . I must have called 30 different places to find out how I could get some help or something . And finally Edith , bless her heart , she found in the Denver Post an ad -- an advertisement , an article on reverse mortgages , and they gave us a loan for a year . Emma : Am I going to be all right ? Annetta : Oh , yes . It will be fine . Still : They are victims , too , the guardians are . They are doing the best -- 99 percent @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ they 're stuck with , to take care of this elderly person . Moriarty : Why do you stick with this guardianship ? Annetta : We love her . That 's it . Edith : If you 're going to be a guardian , and you do n't know them before , I suggest that you learn to love them . And it 's surprising how people of all ages respond to love . Still : Do both of you feel that you should continue the guardianship for her ? Annetta : Oh , yes . Still : And you 're willing ? Annetta : Yes . Edith : Mm-hmm . Still : You just close your eyes and take a rest . Emma : OK . Still : OK . I feel good about the two guardians doing this . That 's compassion , because she still loves them and knows them , but the days down the road that she is n't going to know them , but they 'll still do it , I think . Emma : I just love you . Annetta : Well , I @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ : Well , are you happy ? Moriarty : Dorothy Moore will also need someone down the road . Conrardy : She needs 24-hour super -- supervision . She needs assistance with all activities of daily living . She needs someone to make decisions for her . Moriarty : But will it be Stephanie Conrardy or Charles Snead ? Snead : It does n't take any rocket science or anything to -- to -- to be a guardian . Why ca n't some member of the family do the same job that she 's doing ? Benton : Courts do n't know it all . I 'm not sure that everyone would agree with the court 's decision , but as I see it , the best interest of Dorothy Moore would be served by having Stephanie Conrardy continue to act as her guardian , so for that reason , that will be the order of the court . Moriarty : Why did you decide that a nurse , a person who really does n't know Dorothy Moore , should be a better guardian than her cousin ? Benton : Well @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the nurse is on the spot . And she 's a pro , that 's all . She 's in it for hire , and she does a good job , it seemed to me , and she 's here . In due course -- and I do n't know when that will be , I would suppose a couple of years from now -- we 'll be sending a court friend around to see how things are working out for this lady at that place . Moriarty : What does this say about getting old in this country ? Benton : Don't. 
##221376 Dan Rather , host : Lee Harvey Oswald was only 24 years old when John F. Kennedy was killed , 24 very strange years . 48 Hours correspondent Phil Jones follows the bizarre twists and turns that eventually brought Lee Harvey Oswald to Dallas ' Dealey Plaza . @!MYSTERY-MAN-# Phil Jones reporting : The life of Lee Harvey Oswald was made to order for those who thrive on mystery and conspiracy . Unidentified Voice 1 : ( From Film Footage ) Did you kill the president ? Lee Harvey Oswald : ( From Film Footage ) No , I have not been charged with that , in fact ... Jones : It was an odyssey that left traces of apparent connections to the CIA , FBI , KGB , Castro and the mob . Born in New Orleans in 1939 , Oswald was raised by his widowed mother , Marguerite . Marguerite Oswald : ( From Film Footage ) He was a happy-go-lucky youngster , actually . Jones : He had an average IQ , but often skipped school . @!M-Oswald : ( From Film Footage ) He @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ New York , playing hooky from school . Jones : He dropped out of school in the 10th grade and joined the Marines at 17 . At one point , he qualified as a sharp-shooter , an average rating for Marines . Oswald served in the Far East , where the super secret U-2 spy plane was based . Mack Osborn : He was an oddball . Jones : Mack Osborn was Oswald 's roommate for nine months . Osborn : I really think it was a matter of he felt like he was a little smarter , possibly better , than the rest of the people . Jones : He was smart enough to learn a second language -- Russian . Osborn : He would go into a town on his own and come back with his Russian newspapers that he would then sit around with a Russian dictionary and try to translate out of this newspaper and apparently taught himself to be semi-proficient , anyway . Jones : Oswald soon had a chance to use his Russian . He got an early military discharge , supposedly to take care @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ passport to travel to the Soviet Union . @!M-Oswald : ( From Film Footage ) How can Lee Harvey Oswald get out of the Marine Corps three months ahead of time on a dire-need discharge and at the same time be issued a passport to travel ? I think my son was sent to Russia . Jones : Did the CIA recruit Oswald while he was in the Marines ? In 1975 , Dan Rather asked then-director William Colby . William Colby ( CIA Director ) : ( From Film Footage ) No . We had no contact with Mr. Oswald . Rather : ( From Film Footage ) No contact before he went to the Soviet Union ? Colby : ( From Film Footage ) No contact with him before he went to the Soviet Union . No contact with him after he returned from the Soviet Union . No contact with him while he was in the Soviet Union . Jones : Or , was Oswald working for the KGB ? The Soviets gave him a visa in near-record time . And Oswald headed straight for the American Embassy @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ US Consul in Moscow ) : ( From Film Footage ) He did say that he had information from his Marine Corps service which -- and that he intended to make available to the Soviet authorities everything that he knew , everything that he had learned . Jones : Soviet officials denied Oswald citizenship and ordered him to leave . A few hours later , Oswald slit his wrists . Then , without explanation , the Soviets agreed to let him stay , not in Moscow , but in faraway Minsk . He was given what Soviets considered a luxurious apartment , a good job at a factory and a stipend . In April , ' 61 , Oswald married a Russian girl , Marina Prusakova . At the same time , he was planning to leave the Soviet Union . Surprisingly , Marina had no trouble getting an exit visa . The State Department paid the Oswalds ' way to the US and pressured immigration to let Marina enter the country . Rather : ( From Film Footage ) Did anyone with the CIA debrief Oswald when he returned to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ No , he -- the CIA did not debrief him . Jones : Oswald returned to Texas with his family , and in the spring of ' 63 , he mail-ordered a revolver , then a rifle , both under an alias , A. Hidell . He asked his wife to take this picture , showing off his new arsenal . Marina remembers one night the following month . Marina Prusakova ( Wife of Lee Harvey Oswald ) : ( From Film Footage ) He was so pale , nervous and would n't talk . I said , ' What happened ? ' to him . And he said -- he told , ' I tried to -- shot General Walker . ' Jones : A shot was fired at General Edwin Walker , a prominent right-wing extremist . If Oswald did it , he missed . In any case , he left town quickly . In the spring of ' 63 , Oswald returned to the streets of New Orleans . His associations and activities were puzzling , and in the years since the assassination , suspicion and confusion have @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ large anti-Castro movement , but a few days later , he made news by handing out pro-Castro leaflets . Oswald : ( From Film Footage ) Well , I have studied Marxist philosophy , yes , sir , and also other philosophers . Unidentified Reporter : ( From Film Footage ) But are you a Marxist ? I think you did admit on an earlier radio interview that you are . That you consider yourself a Marxist . Oswald : ( From Film Footage ) I would very definitely say I -- I am a Marxist , that is correct . Jones : What about Oswald 's other New Orleans associations ? Oswald worked out of this office building . So did Guy Bannister , an ex-FBI agent and David Ferrie . Ferrie and Bannister were connected to the anti-Castro movement and to organized crime . They were seen with Oswald frequently . Five months before the assassination , Oswald applied for a new passport to travel to Cuba and Russia . Despite his previous attempt to defect , Oswald received his passport in a single day . The State Department @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to Mexico City to get visas to travel to Cuba and Russia , but both embassies said no . And so , Oswald returned to his wife , Marina , in Texas , who was staying with a friend , Ruth Paine . Ruth Paine ( Friend of Marina Prusakova 's ) : ( From Film Footage ) Lee had spent a week unsuccessfully looking for a job in Dallas , and my neighbor and I , Marina , were all talking about this difficulty , how hard it was for him , and a third neighbor who was there , suggested that there might be an opening at the schoolbook depository . Jones : And , as all of America knows , Lee Harvey Oswald got the job . How could a man with Oswald 's past go unnoticed ? Well , in fact , the FBI knew Oswald and his Russian wife were in Dallas . An agent questioned Marina just three weeks before the Kennedy assassination . The FBI has been criticized for not warning the Secret Service or the Dallas police about Oswald . Listen to Dallas @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ . Jesse Curry ( Dallas Police Chief ) : ( From Film Footage ) We in the police department here did not know he was in Dallas . I understand the FBI did know that he was in Dallas . Jones : There is evidence the FBI later tried to cover up some of what it knew about Oswald in Dallas rather than admit the bureau might have made a mistake . Dan . Rather : Phil , despite all the allegations , the House Select Committee could not prove that Oswald was an FBI informant . There is also no credible evidence to suggest that the FBI had anything to do with the assassination itself . So if there was a conspiracy , who was behind it ? We 'll look into that explosive question as 48 Hours continues . 
##221377 Dan Rather , host : Most Americans do n't believe that Lee Harvey Oswald killed JFK without any help . According to the latest CBS News/New York Times poll taken just two weeks ago , three out of four Americans think that there were others involved and that there was an official coverup to keep the public from learning the truth . The House assassinations committee concluded in 1979 that President Kennedy was probably killed as a result of a conspiracy . There 's certainly no shortage of theories about who was responsible . 48 Hours correspondent Richard Schlesinger reports . @!SUSPECTS-# Ed Hoffman : ( Through Translator ) I was standing on the bridge . I could see the president as they turned the corner . Richard Schlesinger reporting : Ed Hoffman is a deaf mute . He was in Dallas that day . Hoffman : ( Through Translator ) And I saw a man standing right in this area here . Schlesinger : He 's been telling his story for almost 30 years . Hoffman : ( Through Translator ) I could see him pick up @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ saw a puff of smoke . He started running and then I saw a brown rifle . I could see the rifle . Schlesinger : But you do n't have to have been there to doubt the Warren Commission . qwq @ ( Footage-of-a-man-e Unidentified Man 1 : This is a replica , this was used in the movie , in fact . Schlesinger : The JFK Assassination Information Center , just three blocks from the scene of the crime , attracts the curious , the skeptical , the obsessed . Unidentified Woman 1 : Two ... Unidentified Woman 2 : Tickets for the bus tour . Woman 1 : ... tickets for the bus tour . Schlesinger : No crime this century has been studied more closely , and over the years , critics of the lone gunman theory have come up with scores of conspiracy theories . They break down in three general groups . Mark Lane ( Author ) : I think that the evidence shows that the CIA killed President Kennedy . Michael Kurtz ( Southeast Louisiana University ) : Fidel Castro was the mastermind behind the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ I think there 's a very strong case that Carlos Marcello was the mastermind of a plot to kill him . Schlesinger : Mark Lane became the first conspiracy superstar with his 1966 best-seller " Rush to Judgment , " which condemned the Warren report . He has a new best-seller now , called " Plausible Denial , " which alleges -- he says , proves the assassination was orchestrated by the CIA . Lane : Well , the motive . I suppose we can think of three different things . Number one , John Kennedy was ending the war in Vietnam . Number two , John Kennedy was involved in a program of rapprochement with Fidel Castro . But above all , John Kennedy said , ' I 'm going to destroy the Central Intelligence Agency . ' Schlesinger : Why could n't they have done a better job ? Why did they leave so many clues for people like you to -- to pick up on , some of which you described as being almost ridiculously obvious ? I mean , are they that bad at conspiracy ? Lane @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ killed . The CIA , in September of 1963 , set up a charade which would not only blame Lee Harvey Oswald , but would immobilize any commission which was investigating . Schlesinger : Oswald 's trip to Mexico City , says Lane , was part of the CIA charade to link Oswald to the KGB and blame the assassination on the Soviets . Lane : The CIA did reach Earl Warren . They told him , ' It 's going to be a nuclear war if you do n't lie to the American people . Say Oswald did it alone and let 's close this thing down . ' He said , ' OK . ' Schlesinger : That 's an explosive charge , one that 's been made for years , and now for the first time on camera , the CIA man who would know has agreed to talk . Richard Helms was director of covert operations at the time of the assassination . He went on to become CIA director . Richard Helms ( Former CIA Director ) : And I 'm simply saying this on television @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that the CIA was not involved in that assassination regardless of what anybody says . I tell you , we checked up on it later , not only at the time , but then we checked out when the Warren Commission was sitting and so forth . Be sure that nobody had been in Dallas on that particular day . Schlesinger : You did that in -- in -- in November of 1963 ? Helms : Of course . Schlesinger : Why did you do that ? Had anybody accused the CIA at the time ? Helms : It was to be sure that -- the place was in an uproar . The country was in an uproar . There was great concern that this might have been a foreign doing of some kind . Schlesinger : Is that why you checked , or did you check because you thought maybe some of your guys might have been involved ? Helms : I did not think that anybody was involved , and do n't try to make me say it . Schlesinger : Was there a feeling that there was reason @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the United States was that mad at the CIA ? Helms : Well , we were unhappy but there 's nothing we could do about it . What would -- what would you suggest that one do under the circumstances ? Schlesinger : Well , you know what people have suggested you did under the circumstances . Helms : What was that ? Schlesinger : You had the president killed . Helms : That 's ridiculous . That 's a leap of fantasy and Americans who think that way , have a child 's mentality . Schlesinger : There 's little doubt that the CIA under Kennedy , did try to kill Fidel Castro , and that 's at the heart of a second theory , that Castro ordered the president 's murder . Kurtz : Kennedy was trying to get Castro , but Castro got him first . Schlesinger ; Michael Kurtz teaches history at Southeast Louisiana University . He 's written a book fingering Castro . Kurtz : The CIA had indeed contracted with the Mafia to use hit men to kill him . Schlesinger : Castro is a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ was behind this , what the consequences would be . Why would he take that risk ? Kurtz : You 're quite right . There was a great risk of retaliation by the US of a full-scale military invasion of Cuba and overthrow of him . But Castro , in my opinion , came down to the most basic of human motives : survival . Schlesinger : In fact , this was President Lyndon Johnson 's theory . Aides say he was talking about Castro in this 1969 interview with Walter Cronkite . President Lyndon B. Johnson : ( From Film Footage ) I ca n't honestly say that I 've ever been completely relieved of the fact that there might have been international connections . Kwitny : Why would Fidel Castro risk touching off a war against his island in order to make Lyndon Johnson president of the United States ? That 's bizarre . Schlesinger : Investigative reporter Jonathan Kwitny insists all the evidence points to Carlos Marcello , the boss of the New Orleans mob and a prime target of Attorney General Robert Kennedy . Kwitney : Carlos @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ for wanting Kennedy dead , which was that the Kennedys had almost killed him , and were in the process of destroying his -- his vast , very profitable commercial empire . They were bringing a second deportation order against him , and the hearing commenced on November 22 , the day of the assassination . Lee Oswald was working with two people who were at Carlos Marcello 's right hand , David Ferrie , Marcello 's personal pilot , Guy Bannister , who was the investigator for the defense of Carlos Marcello in the deportation hearing . And Jack Ruby , who the Warren Commission led you to believe was some minor nightclub owner was , in fact , a major Mafia figure . They were n't working for Fidel Castro . There 's no evidence that they were . There 's no evidence that they were working for the CIA . There 's no evidence that they were working for any earthly person , other than Carlos Marcello . Schlesinger : About the only thing most critics have in common besides an absolute conviction the Warren report is wrong @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Any crime , if it 's studied for as many years by as many people , would probably generate as many theories . So , how will this all end ? Almost all the critics demand another investigation , but if another probe concludes one of the theories is the truth , chances are there will still be conspiracy theorists convinced that the coverup is continuing . Dan . Rather : Richard Schlesinger , thanks . When we come back , you 'll meet a man who says Oswald was just a patsy , and blames the government for killing JFK . Is it reality or only a movie ? 